20160830 arb minutes

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ARB - Meeting (Date in Title)


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  1. Call to order
  2. Roll Call
  3. Approval of Agenda and Minutes
  4. Management
    1. Mission and Charter Review
    2. Decision Making Procedures review
  5. Governance
  6. Methodology
  7. Other business and planning
  8. Adjournment

Meeting Information

HL7 ArB Work Group Meeting Minutes

Location: Telcon

Date: 20160830
Time: 4:00pm U.S. Eastern
Facilitator Julian, Tony Note taker(s) Julian, Tony
Attendee Name Affiliation
X Bond,Andy NEHTA
R Constable, Lorraine Constable Consulting Inc.
. Dagnall, Bo HP Enterprise Services
. Hufnagel, Steve ?????
X Hyland, Mario AEGIS
X Julian, Tony Mayo Clinic
X Knapp, Paul Pknapp Consulting
X Kubick, Wayne HL7 CTO
. Loyd, Patrick ICode Solutions
X Lynch, Cecil Accenture
X Milosevic, Zoran Deontik Pty Ltd
. Stechishin,Andy CANA Software and Service Ltd.
. Nelson, Dale Accenture
. Grow, Richard U.S. Department of Veterans affairs
X Present
. Absent
R Regrets
Quorum Requirements (Co-chair + 3) Met: Yes


  1. Approval of Agenda and Minutes
    • Motion to approve the Minutes (Mario/Zoran)
    • Vote 4-0-1
  2. Management
    1. Mission and Charter Review
      • Mission:
        • Wayne: State of understanding and adoption across the organization. How does ARB relate to HSI and OMG? We dont discuss happenings in the other meetings.
        • Cecil: Attends SOA and derivitive work groups. If not relative to ARB I dont bring it up.
        • Mario: We dont bring the info back or take to them. Have talked to Ken Rubin/OMG.
        • Wayne: Does our architecture fit others or not.
        • Cecil: Ken is with SOA/OMG - and bring up the SAIF architecture. Where there are active members in both groups it is permeated. Enough cross representation.
        • Mario: ARB works on behalf of the TSC.
        • Wayne: Discuss external topics quarterly.
        • Zoran: came across OASIS SOA ontology, the official liason between HL7 and others is not clear. SAIF has elements from the OASIS reference architecture. Do we need to have knowledge of the liasons?
        • Wayne: Good suggestion: List from the board of nominated reference persons.
        • Wayne: RE: #3 - has anyone submitted content for review.
        • Zoran: We need to have it understood.
        • Mario: come up with 5 bullet points to determine SAIF conformance.
        • Wayne: RE: #4 Do we do this? Should we remove from charter?
        • Andy B: need be more subjective - have something to reflect relative to SAIF. Having that in our charter is important.
        • Wayne: #5 Have reviewed PSSs. Ammend to add external review items.
      • Wayne: FOrmal Relationships
        • Wayne Bullet 3 Communication of the value and benefits of application of the architectures to the organization. Should add core principles - where the essential parts are.
        • Wayne:re"• Promotes the alignment criteria to optimize interoperability between systems that have their own discreet architectures"
        • CHeck on it.
        • Wayne: We need to "• Tracks developments on relevant industry trends, techniques, and tooling that may apply to HL7 and provides recommendations to the TSC". We are not doing as much as we should on harmonization with FHIR and the organization. ARB could help bridge.
        • Cecil: Look at Furore FHIR on Spark, and transforms from relational RIM to cassandra/FHIR. We need to be more involved - e.g. SAIF across standards.
        • Paul: AID is showing usage of the standards. Usage is implied in the standards. When the standards work, the dont come to us - only when they dont fit the use cases. We should track emerging/changing trends.
        • Wayne: ARB should look at breakdown of FTSD and other SDs.
        • Paul: One group is abstract, one concrete. Got thrown away in FHIR to move quickly. Dont have a model, but have multiple serializations. They are conformant to the model.
        • Paul/wayne discussion on ITS place in the organization.
    1. Decision Making Procedures review
  3. Governance
  4. Methodology
    • Definition of "Guidance" product

A Guidance is a type of informative document that describes principles, best practices, and general advice but is not directly related to implementation of one or more specifications. MOTION to accept definition: Tony/Andy Discussion: Calvin asks if it's a sense that the definition precludes referencing any implementations or complete implementations? Tony: the idea is that it's not an implementation guide. Calvin: Could a guidance document apply to the writing of the standard? Or how you implement an aspect of a standard? Decision that these aspects don't change the definition. Discussion over whether past products would fall under this type.

      • Cecil: interesting comment "influencing direction". There was pushback from the organization to do things quickly. As we have discovered with Data types as well as others, it has not happened.
        • Mario: It should be happening before FHIR becomes normative.
        • Paul: Same as with CDA.
        • Cecil: Yes, and CDA did not change. It is a problem when vocabulary is in extensions.
        • Paul: unfortunately you can get people to say "it is draft" and we will fix it as we go. But they were reluctant to change.
        • Wayne: We should address FHIR sooner than later.
        • Paul: Most other committees would like to see FHIR in line with the classic structure.
        • Cecil: Other products having trouble bridging the gap between old stuff and FHIR.
        • Paul: Groups maintain expertise, and when we allow them to go on their own they make the same mistakes again. We are ingnoring our own scope an mandates of groups. Hard to reign back in.
  1. Other business and planning
    • Baltimore Planning
    • Quarterly report on external standards.
    • Paul, Cecil in flight: Zoran away couple of weeks
  2. Adjournment