20130505 FGB WGM meeting

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HL7 TSC FGB Meeting Minutes

Location: Atlanta 1

Date: 2013-05-05
Time:12:30-1:30PM U.S. Eastern
Facilitator: Ron Parker Note taker(s): Lynn Laakso
Quorum = Chair plus 2 yes/no
Chair/CTO Members Members
x Ron Parker x George (Woody) Beeler x Ewout Kramer
John Quinn x Grahame Grieve
observers/guests x Austin Kreisler
x Lynn Laakso, scribe
x Lloyd McKenzie
x Gil Alterovic
x Abdul-Malik Shakir


  • Roll call -
  • Agenda Review
  • Approve minutes of 20130417 FGB concall
  • Action Item review:
    • Ron will document approach to escalation/appeal process and give feedback to the Management group - no progress.
  • discussion of agenda for WGM
    • Quorum challenges
    • Vitality process presentation
    • Connectathon results
    • education plan,
  • FMG update -
    • continued discussion on concept of FHIR WG.
  • Methodology update-
  • Review precepts, associated governance points and risks
  • HL7/IHE/DICOM coordination (John)


Convened at 12:52 PM

  • Agenda Review
    • Vitality process presentation - defer
    • Ron will document approach to escalation/appeal process and give feedback to the Management group - no progress.
  • Approve minutes of 20130417 FGB concall Woody moves and Ewout seconds approval, then abstains. Approved 3/0/1
  • discussion of agenda for WGM
    • Quorum challenges -
      • global time changes. Grahame has heard concern over his position as architect as well as governance group member. May want to revisit it as the hand-over process matures. Decision making process is a challenge though the discussion on the calls has been fruitful. Minutes are insufficient detail to support a vote.
      • Lloyd suggests recording the calls. Woody points out you would need to switch to the GTM audio instead of the conference calling center.
      • Ewout finds listening to such a transcript difficult. You can use the minutes for the headlines, then scan through the recording to the discussion of interest. Woody cautions that the sessions he's been recording with Josh and Mike of HQ run 500MB.
      • FGB/FMG membership appointments need to be reviewed as they cycle - (appointed 7/16/2012). Look at this on Friday. Need to address succession planning for skillsets. Austin notes that he wants to see what's working and what's not for other product groups. Grahame motes that the skillset or knowledge transfer is of concern to him. Governance now is embedded in the code to some degree.
      • Grahame suggests changing to 4 PM EDT - agreed. Use email for more voting
    • Connectathon results
      • Ewout reports they have surfaced important issues. 26 attendees today.
      • Grahame reports that the connectathon process has proven its worth in the quality of the feedback.
      • Connectathon focused on infrastructure of FHIR works, but domain level requirements work is difficult.
      • New participation, users ramping up, has driven focus to infrastructure issues and exploring the edges was not pursued. ABBI would be a good topic.
      • Activities around the connectathon; what is the nature of conformance to FHIR achieves. FGB needs to weigh in. "Classic" HL7 folks want FHIR to work out of the box. Others look at is as a neat idea, and willing to extend it to do their own stuff. How do we respond to that as an organization. If you let people create their own resources it won't interoperate. On the other hand internal development not to interoperate with others.
      • Woody asks about taking ballot comments out of the connectathon - the issues surfaced by connectathon are significant and valid to incorporate while we're still in DSTU. Would need a different process once normative.
      • Lloyd notes that preventing collisions between things that are created outside of HL7 is of concern. Discoverability of extensions is also important. With those you can permit implementers go off to do their own thing.
      • Ewout found this in meeting at HL7 UK
      • Ron suggests a policy assertion from the FGB on the approach, and a mechanism to support what Lloyd.
      • Grahame notes they've drafted a mechanism on one of the servers to do so.
      • Ron continues that we need clear policy assertions on what is normative and what is not. Brand preservation important to clarify when those who do implementations that go off the rail.
      • Discoverability of the stuff that's in an instance to find out what the stuff is. The ability to know if someone out there has done 'x' before is another part. AMS notes that this resembles the request HL7 made to those who created Z segments to report what they created. However with FHIR using REST you need to retrieve the conformance profiles, so baked into the infrastructure and part of the conformance declaration. If you create a resource you use the same infrastructure within your own organization.
      • Governance point - FMG needs to create mechanism to reassess the solution to the problem around extensions to validate if it's working and still matches our assumptions.
      • Grahame introduces Gil from Harvard in the early stages of donating their resource to HL7. He'd like a process around the donation of resources into the HL7 specification.
      • Action item: establish policy and process of incorporation of donated resources by external entities, acknowledgements and so on.
    • Education plan, Ron solicits assistance Monday Q3 to attend Education WG - David Hay will be there, Lloyd reports.

Next Steps

Actions (Include Owner, Action Item, and due date)
  • changing concall to 4 PM EDT
  • establish policy and process of incorporation of donated resources by external entities, acknowledgements and so on.
  • Develop policy assertion from the FGB on the approach to extensions and discoverability.
Next Meeting/Preliminary Agenda Items
  • 20130507 FGB WGM meeting
  • Tuesday Q1 FGB, education plan recap from Ron joining Education Monday Q3, finish Risk assessment.
  • FMG meets Weds night after the reception but FGB members may not attend.
  • Friday Q1 joint with FMG. Need to discuss education plan with FMG

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