MnM Minutes CC 20100722
Contents
- 1 M&M Ballot Reconciliation Conf. Call 4:00 PM Eastern (Date above)
- 2 Agenda - Core Principles Reconciliation
- 2.1 Working document
- 2.2 Comment Grouping "GWB-GG (Neg-Mi)"
- 2.3 Comment Grouping "GWB-GG - A-*"
- 2.3.1 Item 17 (GWB-GG - A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.3.2 Item 21 (GWB-GG - A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.3.3 Item 22 (GWB-GG - A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.3.4 Item 30 (GWB-GG - A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.3.5 Item 140 (GWB-GG - A-Q) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.3.6 Item 141 (GWB-GG - A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.3.7 Item 142 (GWB-GG - A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.3.8 Item 143 (GWB-GG - A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.3.9 Item 145 (GWB-GG - A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.3.10 Item 172 (GWB-GG - A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.3.11 Item 173 (GWB-GG - A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.3.12 Item 225 (GWB-GG - A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.3.13 Item 226 (GWB-GG - A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.4 Comment Grouping "GG-Neg* Chap 3.2 & 3.3"
- 2.4.1 Item 18 (GG-NegMj) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.4.2 Item 19 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.4.3 Item 23 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.4.4 Item 24 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.4.5 Item 25 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.4.6 Item 27 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.4.7 Item 28 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.4.8 Item 29 and 31 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.4.9 Item 32 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.4.10 Item 33 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.4.11 Item 34 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.4.12 Item 38 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.4.13 Item 116 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.4.14 Item 117 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.4.15 Item 119 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.4.16 Item 120 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.4.17 Item 171 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.4.18 Item 219 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.4.19 Item 222 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.4.20 Item 253 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
- 2.5 Comment Grouping "GROUPING-NAME"
- 2.6 Adjournment
M&M Ballot Reconciliation Conf. Call 4:00 PM Eastern (Date above)
Logistics
Join GoToMeeting at
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- Meeting ID: 701-832-453
Agenda - Core Principles Reconciliation
Working document
The working document is the reconciliation spreadsheet posted on HL7 Ballot Desktop. Items are collected by the entries on the "Comment Grouping" column.
Comment Grouping "GWB-GG (Neg-Mi)"
Four items designated Negative in this grouping
Item 20 (GWB-GG Neg-Mi) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Link to : "../conformance/conformance.htm"
Discussion:
Voter note: Is this an official document? If so, should have a link
Item 26 (GWB-GG Neg-Mi) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
Suggest change to:
As noted earlier in this section [link previous four words to #coreP_V3_RIM_and_Datatypes] there are numerous "types" defined in HL7 V3 models. For this discussion, the prmary types are "class" and "data type".
Voter:
Section 3 has a definition of type that should be somehow tied in here, this phrase in column J is not helpful to understanding section 3.4.
Item 36 (GWB-GG Neg-Mi) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Link is to : ../templates/templates.htm#TemplateExampleApplied
Voter:
Need official reference
Item 37 (GWB-GG Neg-Mi) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
Change the last two sentences under number 8 to read:
Thus, for example, the assertion of a different primary performer for a descendant class simply means that there will be two such performers listed - the conducted performer and the addition. In this example, when using the current (new) context control structure, one can accomplish the equivalent of a participation "override" (from the prior context control structure) the "PRF" participation code in the ActRelationship leading to the descendant, and assigning a new performer Participation to the descendant. (Note that the new performer then becomes part of the conductible content of the Act for which the performer has been overridden.)
Also SEE NOTE AT ITEM 172
Voter:
Is this referring to the 'old way'? If not, and this refers to the new way of doing things, then the text should not use the word override as a way to explain - yes I see it in quotes, but its still override, which is no longer used. (which by the way is sometimes spelled override, and in this sentence is over-ride - should be consistent)
Comment Grouping "GWB-GG - A-*"
13 items with an Annotation (A-*) vote.
Item 17 (GWB-GG - A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
Change second sentence of "class" buller to: The "type" of an attribute is a data type, whereas the "type" of an association is yet another RIM class.
Item 21 (GWB-GG - A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Remove bold
Item 22 (GWB-GG - A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Drop duplicate "the"
Item 30 (GWB-GG - A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Fix
Item 140 (GWB-GG - A-Q) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
Change "XML communications" to "XML-encoded information"
Item 141 (GWB-GG - A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Set link to RCL document at "../conformance/conformance.htm"
Item 142 (GWB-GG - A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Add "records"
Item 143 (GWB-GG - A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
change the to that
Item 145 (GWB-GG - A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Change
Item 172 (GWB-GG - A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with Mod"
IN REGARDS to 3.5 = I suggest renamibng "Section 6 - Accountability" to something like: "Section 6 - Special Topics on Implementation and Representation" and include in it:
- Context Conduction
- Accountability
- Update Mode
- Negation
- Record Characteristics, and
- Model References
from Rio Tuesday Q3 (see minutes)
As for the sentence referenced in this Line item: change to read: "After protracted discussion within HL7, the prior mechanism was deprecated ....."
Item 173 (GWB-GG - A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with Mod"
Suggest a combination as:
conductible context — the conductible context of an Act is that portion of its context that may be conducted to descendant Acts; whether or not a given ActRelationship or Participation off the Act or its ancestors is part of the conductible context of the Act is determined by the value of the "conductible" property of the code asserted for the given element's typeCode.
Item 225 (GWB-GG - A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Remove stutter from first sentence of 3.5
Item 226 (GWB-GG - A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with Mod"
Suggest modify first sentence here to read:
"… each model must identify a single style of context conduction that will be used by all of its relationships by … "
Comment Grouping "GG-Neg* Chap 3.2 & 3.3"
21 Items with Neg votes - dispositions proposed by McKenzie
Item 18 (GG-NegMj) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
HELP from LM or GG, as GB cannot understand what the intent of this paragraph is.
Suggest: In general, the type in derived models must be the same as the type from the reference model, though constraints on the reference model type may be used as well. The expressed model for datatypes is always that specified in the abstract data types.
Item 19 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Add a forward reference to where expressed model is defined.
Item 23 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
GG - Suggest add "value domain" to the Glossary woith definition:
The "value domain" for an element whose type is a data type (such as an attribute or data type component) is the complete set (?) of allowed values for that element as specified by the definition of the assigned data type. Thus the value domain for an element typed as INT (Integer) is all integer numbers and "1" is a member of that value domain, whereas "1.1" is not.
Item 24 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
Eitjer drop, revise or refer to "exceptional values"
Item 25 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
GG - either drop these (and all of 3.3.2?) or link them to the Abstract spec using forms like:
../vocabulary/NullFlavor.htm#PINF
Item 27 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
GG needs to find better wording.
Item 28 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
GG needs to find better wording.
Item 29 and 31 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
LM and GG - This section is very difficult to read and understand. I suggest that we need a "Table" that includes the following columns: Model type ("reference". "expressed", "implied", "applied") Defined in (RIM, CIM, template) Example: (CIM, RMIM, Interface, whatever) Purpose: (in a sentence or phrase, how used in Hl7 V3)
Item 32 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
Clarify
Item 33 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Fix
Item 34 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Sounds Persuasive to me
Change "constraint models" to "potential applied models"
Item 38 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
GG LM We need a sentence of "rationale" for "serialized models"
Also SEE NOTE AT ITEM 172
"HL7 models define content to be exchanged. This exchange frequently occurs in a serial manner with bytes of information being sent in a particular order. HL7 must therefore define the order of serialization to ensure interoperability. This is done by defining a normative way for ordering (or serializing) the content of the model. All HL7 static models that can be used to define the expressed models or applied models for instances must therefore be serializable.
Item 116 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Pending input from submitter"
Not clear how adding examples will help. Seeing an example of "PORX_MT123456" for static model or "ED" for datatype isn't going to help a newcomer understand better. The definitions seem clear to the author. Specific guidance on where clarity is lacking would be helpful.
Item 117 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Not persuasive with mod"
Will not add examples here, but will reference the abstract data type specification where the characteristics of flavors are defined in more detail and where there are lots of examples.
Item 119 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
Will add a diagram and/or example section at the end. Clearer expressions on where the existing definitions are unclear would be helpful.
Item 120 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Will add an example
Item 171 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
Will add an example of PINF.equal(NINF).equal(false).
Item 219 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Change to "but it is acceptable for the data content to not conform to the narrow value domain provided that the instance explicitly declares that it does not conform by declaring a null flavor."
Item 222 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Will change to "The expressed model is the model that determines the names and structure of the instance." (or similar wording acceptable to Grahame.)
Item 253 (GG-Neg*) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Will change "complete, implementable" to "serializable"
Comment Grouping "GROUPING-NAME"
GROUPING-NOTE
Item NN (GROUPING-NAME) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "disposition"
DISPOSITION-COMMENT
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item NN (GROUPING-NAME) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "disposition"
DISPOSITION-COMMENT
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item NN (GROUPING-NAME) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "disposition"
DISPOSITION-COMMENT
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION