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July 27th, 2008 Conference Call

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Community-Based Collaborative Care Working Group Meeting

Meeting Information


  • Richard Thoreson - chair
  • Ioana Singureanu
  • Dave Carlson
  • Suzanne Gonzales-Webb
  • Frank Din
  • Mike Davis
  • Patti Greim
  • Russ Hamm


  1. (05 min) Roll Call
  2. (05 min) Approve Minutes & Accept Agenda
  3. (15 min) Object Id Terminology for the permission catalog

Permissions catalog
The comment "These are already in HL7" means that both HL7 V2 and V3 have either normative or informative code systems associated with that object (and actually there many more object types that merit this comment but it was getting a little repetitive to add that comment). If you are looking for feedback in that regard we can provide specific references to all the objects in the catalog that reflected in HL7 terminology the same we are planning to analyze SNOMED for candidate codes for other object identifies.

Another observation is that since you are separating "documentation" from "functionality" the catalog contains some redundancy.

1) The redundancy appears sometime when one very generic functionality is included alongside a very specific one. For example, in this case "Registration" is one aspect of ADT. Since ADT includes Registration, then "New" and "Edit/Addend" are redundant.

SAD-001 | PAD-001 | Performs ADT Functions   | {C, ADT} {U, ADT} {R, ADT} 
SAD-005 | PAD-008 | New Registration         | {C, Registration}
SAD-005 | PAD-009 | Edit/Addend Registration | {U, Registration} {R, Registration)

2) Another redundancy is due to separating "documentation" from "functionality" as I mentioned earlier. Such as example is "Performs ADT Functions" and Add/Edit Encounter. The first appears as a functionality and the second as a documentation permission. In reality you need to have access to "ADT functions" to create and update "Encounter data". We don't need a separate set of permissions related to creating and updating the Encounter. One cannot change the Encounter data unless one can "perform ADT functions". Therefore SAD-001 (Performs ADT functions) subsumes:

SPD-001 | PPD-040 | New Encounter Data              | {C, Encounter Data}
SPD-001 | PPD-041 | Edit/Addend/Sign Encounter Data | {U, Encounter Data}

In my opinion, once we map these objects to HL7, SNOMED, and LOINC codes this type of redundancy will become apparent we can address it easily.

Action Items:

  • Suzanne and Patti will map the current object identifiers(from the permissions catalog) to SNOMED. If an object id cannot be mapped because of gaps in SNOMED, the VA team will work with SNOMED to add any missing concepts.

  1. (5 min) Vocabulary Proposal

Additional reference: Vocabulary Proposal with diagrams

Agenda items

Action Item List

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