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20140918 FGB FMG WGM

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HL7 TSC FGB/FMG joint Meeting Minutes

Location: Lake Michigan Room, Hilton Chicago

Date: 2014-09-14
Time: 12:30 PM U.S. Eastern
Chair: Woody Note taker(s):Lynn
FGB Quorum = Chair plus 2 yes
Co-Chair/CTO Members
x Woody Beeler x Lorraine Constable regrets-Clinical Connectathon (CC) Grahame Grieve regrets (CC) David Hay (FMG)
Dave Shaver x Ewout Kramer x Lloyd McKenzie (FMG) regrets Ron Parker
John Quinn
observers/guests x Mary Kay McDaniel Serafina Versaggi Rob Mulder, Furore Martijn Harthoorn, Furore
x Lynn Laakso, scribe Kathleen Connor
FMG Quorum = chair + 4 yes/no
Co chairs regrets, CC David Hay x Lloyd McKenzie
ex-officio x Woody Beeler,
Dave Shaver
FGB Co-chairs
. John Quinn, CTO
Members Members Members Observers/Guests
x Hans Buitendijk x Hugh Glover x Paul Knapp x Lynn Laakso, scribe
Josh Mandel x John Moehrke Brian Pech


  • Roll Call - convened at 10:05 AM with introductions
  • Agenda Check - recap and DSTU2 planning


  • Connectathon -
    • 64 people, highest number with good mixture of new and experienced participants
    • exercise of SMART on FHIR not as painful as expected. Repeat participants starting to help new ones and so not exclusively reliant on Grahame and Ewout so becoming a community effort.
    • Show of hands for intent to return (with funding) was nearly total. Did not have enough time to show all those who wanted to demonstrate at the end of Sunday.
    • MaryKay asks if there's a published recap to review after the end of the connectathon? Lloyd notes that Rene will usually do some kind of report but there's no formal reporting mechanism. Grahame will also do a blog post. MaryKay would like to be able to refer to the report for concrete evidence of the progress being made, positive things happening, help support those seeking funding to participate. ACTION ITEM: Lloyd will check with Grahame on a formal reporting mechanism.
    • John asks that we consider risks of reporting and indicating proof of conformance and we 'started with x and ended with x+y'. Lloyd is reluctant to name names. John thinks we should to offer incentive to employers sending representatives. Kathleen notes that this would emulate the IHE connectathon to some extent.
    • Woody notes that we discussed on Sunday lunch the management of burgeoning expectations. We need to be careful to avoid raising short-term expectations higher than they already are. Lloyd notes that we need to make some balance to the report i.e. connectathon was great and BTW we made significant changes to the XML and JSON representations.
    • MaryKay would like to see the expression of where we are in the overall plan, timeline to highlight. Kathleen notes observations of external feedback on what the maturity of the existing standards are into a quadrant representation of lifecycle so we don't misrepresent current state in policy decisions.
    • Lloyd suggests we draft the report and have FMG review before it goes out and do some planning for the WGM upcoming for timely preparation of reporting mechanism.
  • Sunday AID
    • Saw a pilot implementation of a service interface using FHIR and some ART-DECOR and FHIR alignment interest. Desire expressed to see hosted templates in ART-DECOR and FHIR profiles side-by-side. Need to touch base with Kai and monitor progress.
  • Sunday Q4 Cochair/facilitator tutorial FHIR Profiles
    • Need to figure out something else for next time. (LL)
    • Ewout would have liked the cochairs to show one another what they had done on profiles, more like a round table.
    • Lorraine feels the participants' expectations were for knowing what tools to use and how to get started. Might be better suited for a round table session
    • MaryKay suggests tips on wiki use and skype channels as other tools to consider in showing the cochairs. Need to celebrate the successes. Kathleen suggests "hot topics". Woody clarifies this is not the same as MnM hot topics as things to be solved. They may be issues that are being solved, report on closure of issues. Lorraine notes it will help content creators keep up with the state of the flow of information - avoid drinking from a FHIR hose.
  • FGB Monday
    • Discussed external stimulus received and whether we can keep up.
    • Who is managing the message.
    • Lynn was unable to attend so woody took minutes at 20140915_FGB_Mtg_at_WGM
    • Classification of profiles into "Base", "Core" and "HL7-Published". Core would be published in the specification.
    • Need to get message out to the groups developing profile definitions prior to Sep 29 deadline notes Lorraine. Lloyd notes that it would be good to include in the report.
    • What do we need to manage new development resources, how best to engage these people. Maintain ethos and culture of HL7 and core community.
    • Lloyd notes that some IGs can ballot separate from FHIR but Grahame is concerned of other ballots until the CCDA resources are properly vetted, to the extent that he would prefer to slip timelines to ensure they are complete. Lorraine notes that OO is working more on profiles and not on resources. Lloyd notes that they seek that WGs have finished the analysis and knowing if the pieces are there. John agrees that we need to define the bar, but if CCDA is the only bar then other pieces that will fail for holding back the DSTU on CCDA's behalf. Lynn notes the use of CCDA as the bar for the spec was expressed explicitly in the PSS and agreed by the FGB as the scope for the DSTU. Lloyd notes we need to revisit the project scope to ensure it is appropriate and does not overly constrain our work.
  • Q4 ITS - changes to ITS and JSON syntax for how extensions are handled. Hugh thinks Pharmacy can identify naming changes in the next month.
    • Lorraine notes Grahame said he would make naming changes across resources that had already been checked in so people need to know that changes will not be made on your behalf if it's not checked in
  • Q5 .NET API users working to align with the HL7 HAPI work
  • Tuesday Q0 revisiting Harmonization process
  • Q1 FHIR for architects nearly 40 attendees. Paul asks what questions were asked - LLoyd reports it was mostly on different exchange paradigms: REST, Documents, Messaging, Services.
  • Q1 PA did not seem to know deadlines that they should have been aware of from their liaison. Hugh needs to bring in his backup to help and Lloyd notes that the liaison process needs review. FMG has had the resource reviews backlogged. Ewout notes that PA had already done their profile work since they had done their profile proposals in May.
  • Q3: Ewout had profiling tutorial with 30 in attendance. He could not attend PA to help with Appointment vs. Encounter
  • Tuesday Q6 was still held to discuss CCDA on FHIR.
    • How to answer questions on who is heading up CCDA on FHIR and how its scope is different from CDA on FHIR. Point them to Rick Geimer.
    • John adds that those that couldn't attend the meeting have questions on what the status of various efforts.
      • How to get a handle on what's what.
      • What are the processes FMG expect WGs to go through, where is it written, etc.
      • Email went out but needs to be on the wiki.
      • May be related to revisiting the liaison process.
    • Lloyd notes that communicating expectations and timelines is one effort but need a single person responsible for FHIR communications and produce a newsletter every couple of months, etc. John notes we need something written down to point to in order to silence discussion in the room.
      • MaryKay suggests a What's Up page. Might even be in addition to the point person and suggests something like the MUMPS group does.
    • Woody suggests that if it will be beyond a volunteer role we need to broach the question as soon as possible.
      • Lloyd suggests C-level communication, WG level development, external community all needs to be addressed. Lorraine notes that student involvement might be useful with marketing/communications programs.
  • Wednesday Q3 Observation vs condition clarification is going to be a continuing concern notes Lorraine.
  • Weds Q4 Lorraine asks how the clinical genomics session went? Need to check with Grahame.
    • Ewout recounts reaction that when faced with the list of problems the WG said they were too complex to discuss in that setting and so they were not.
  • Woody asks about the profile tooling - discussed about Sunday's tutorial
  • Thursday EST Q1 Registry tooling requirements reviewed, Dave Hamill and David Burgess will work together on developing the RFP.
    • Timeline was not confirmed but if the RFP is out by San Antonio, then the vendors have so many weeks, etc. What is the coordination with the budget cycle? MaryKay had suggested that it needs to be reviewed prior to San Antonio.
    • MaryKay noted that Dave Hamill was getting some prior RFP examples together and they would take the information presented to put into a template. There is an example from the Tooling Project Prioritization and Selection process that was developed as part of the Tooling Strategy and Lynn pointed Dave Hamill to those examples.
    • Lorraine expects that it would not be sufficient to hand it over to EST and expect it to happen but FMG will need to support them. Need to weight responses etc notes Mary Kay. Lorraine notes that it is a non-trivial process and they will need help. David Burgess will be the guilt-master and lead shamer to try to get assigned tasks completed.
  • Thursday Q2 QUICK on FHIR would like to complete the mapping before we see if there will be a separate model. Lorraine noted that a different report in their joint meeting indicated that FHIR would be the leaf resources in their model.
  • Thurs Q4 IHE discussed when and how they would become a WG. Suggest they choose a different quarter.
  • Are we able to run this session next time? Only EK+LM will be there and there will again be a clinical connectathon. Block Thursday Q4 for FMG/FGB coordination instead of Friday Q1? Q0, breaks and lunch getting too much. Ewout had 32 quarters this WGM.
    • Touchpoints needed for each WG but probably not full quarters.
    • Joint Sunday lunch is still OK
    • Sunday Q3 might be an option to swap with MnM - have MnM planning over lunch instead or a conference call the week before. Ron and Lorraine would be in ARB in Q3.
    • Stick with lunch.
    • Monday Q1 FGB keep. Where to schedule Monday FMG? Keep at lunch. Lloyd will schedule the room requests.

Adjourned 11:27 AM

Next Steps

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