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20120216 arb minutes

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ARB - Meeting February 16, 2012

Meeting Information

HL7 ArB Work Group Meeting Minutes

Location: Telcon

Date: 20110216
Time: 4:00pm U.S. Eastern
Facilitator Parker, Ron Note taker(s) Julian, Tony
Attendee Name Affiliation
X Bond,Andy NEHTA
X Constable, Lorraine Constable Consulting Inc.
. Curry, Jane Health Information Strategies
X Dagnall, Bo HP Enterprise Services
. Grieve, Grahame Health Intersections Pty Ltd
X Hufnagel, Steve U.S. Department of Defense, Military Health System
X Julian, Tony Mayo Clinic
X Loyd, Patrick ICode Solutions
. Lynch, Cecil Accenture
. Mead, Charlie National Cancer Institute
X Milosevic, Zoran NEHTA
. Ocasio, Wendell Agilex Technologies
X Parker, Ron CA Infoway
. Quinn, John Health Level Seven, Inc.
. Guests
X Luthra, Anil NCI
. Legend
X Present
. Absent
Quorum Requirements Met: Yes


  1. Role call
  2. Minute approval
  3. SAIF Wikipedia entry
  4. Case Study for SAIF tutorial
  5. Last 7 items in bo's e-mail
  6. Other business and Planning
  7. adjournment


  1. Role call
    1. 8 Arb members, 1 guest
  2. Agenda Approved
  3. Minutes
    1. Motion to approve minutes of the last meeting (patrick/lorraine)
    2. Vote 7-0-0
  4. SAIF Wikipedia entry
    1. Zoran: More public exposure.
    2. Tony will update overview on wikipedia
    3. Tony Get Mike to point permalink to the new document and update text.
    4. Ron will update images
    5. Lorraine: Will permalink be in public space
    6. Ron: Yes
  5. Case Study for SAIF tutorial
    1. This would be easier to understand if there was a case study.
    2. Describe a scenario, and how SAIF applies.
      1. How is Governance done in SAIF context?
      2. How is conformance done in SAIF Context?
    3. Steve: Immunization management protype? Problem is to specify a real system is not trivial. Unless you want to go to a simple intuitive example. Put the artifact in each cell of the ISM.
      1. HITSP specs
      2. DAM's
    4. Ron: Accomplish with a case study:
      1. Allow people to understand what we mean by
        1. Governance
        2. Interoperability, for what purpose
      2. Steve: Define the audience:Novices? Gurus?
      3. Ron: Not getting Gurus at the tutorial
      4. Modify tutorials
        1. One for co-chairs,
        2. different from the one for general audience
      5. Andy: The most logical case study is an IG. Anything else skips from SAIF-CD to instantiation, which bypasses the requirements for an IG.
      6. We can get it wrong in the tutorial, and still be ok. We can highlight HL7 Governance, or sets of templates we expect. Might be a very good way of shaping/testing assumptions about our Actual IG's, actuall y mayb describe goth types of IF in the one tutorial and cover both bases.
    5. Will go to co-chairs and general audience in Vancouver in May. Need to discuss on further calls.
    6. Zoran: How easy to extend prototype in two bits?
    7. Steve: Depends on the rigor of the IG. Gurus tend to make the problem too hard. Build the IG in powerpoint - dont focus on a rigourous detail, rather on organizing the main points. It may become the TOC for the IG. A few bullets for each area - assume audience understands basic software development concepts. People were trying to make it into a disertation.
    8. Ron: Tutorial cannot be purely IG oriented. "Here is how the SAIF-CD can be applied"
    9. Andy: Yes, just enough rope to hand yourself.
    10. Ron: I will try to knock something together.
    11. Steve: As a professor I would have my students prepare their defense slides in the beginning, then they spent the months doing their dissertation.
    12. Ron: Challenge: It is necessary to liase with the groups who are trying to accomplish this - to bring them into the case study, and what we are trying to do. Also, they could inform the case study with their problems.
  6. Last 7 items in bo's e-mail
    1. Cecil agreed with 1-6, but they did not make the DSTU:
    2. Concept map can constrain a class object. Add line from template to class object for the IF concept map.
    3. There are additional constraints to a class model besides data-types
    4. Versioning of Enumerated value sets - versioning can be applied to other artifacts.
    5. Cecil is working with Zoran on the concept map.
    6. Cimino makes an assertion of three types of information (Contextual knowledge)
      1. Definitional
      2. Assertional cause and effect
      3. Contextual is used for grouping
      4. Does contextual knowledge come from terminology or the information model
      5. Ron: Snomed CT has applies its own context. Using snomedct I can skip the context - the terminology imbeds the ontology in the term. Having all of that in the terminology makes it hard to discover.
      6. Bo: It explodes, and becomes unmanageable.
      7. Ron: You cant decompose - it is good for clinical, but not informatics or analytics.
      8. Ron: This feels like an entire ARB call with the right people. We have to take as stand on this.
    7. Bo: #12 Cecil introduces model of meaning and model of use, same as above.
    8. Bo: #13 - missing from the information section is that you organize information into chunks: We dont have a guide on when to create a domain, and relationships between domains. I have a model of chunking domains.
      1. Ron: we discussed this last call.
      2. Ron: Cecil uses the TB domain - CDC considers the TB domain model to be a sub-set of the TB domain. We need some criteria in the SAIF-CD on what you do when you find your domain is a sub-domain.
      3. Zoran: Bo, could you share it with us?
      4. Bo: I am expanding it to include the FHIR work.
    9. Bo #14:the diagram of boxes-within-boxes mixes metaphors.
  7. Other business and Planning
  8. Plan on meeting Feb 23th
  9. Reminder March 1,2012 has been cancelled.
  1. SAIF Wikipedia entry
    1. Tony will update overview on wikipedia
    2. Tony Get Mike to point permalink to the new document and update text.
    3. Ron will update images
  2. Case Study
    1. Ron to create and circulate the case study deck.
  3. Bo's Line 13 needs to be discussed with the ongoing DAM discussion - My domain is your sub-domain.
  4. Ron will send previous minutes to Tony for posting.
  5. Tony to add Patrick report to agenda
  6. Ron/Charlie will touch base with ken Rubin re SOA involvement in ArB calls.

Adjournment at 5:00pm U.S. Eastern

17:02, 17 February 2012 (UTC) Julian, Tony