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Difference between revisions of "RIMBAA 201203 Notes Gothenburg"

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This is the [[RIMBAA|RIMBAA WG]] agenda of the WGM ('''WGM #35''') in Gothenburg, March 8th 2012
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[[category:RIMBAA Minutes]]These are the [[RIMBAA|RIMBAA WG]] notes of the informal meeting ('''WGM #35''') held in Gothenburg, March 8th 2012
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*Note: due to illness no co-chair was present, as such the meeting was an informal one. No decisions were made. Below are some notes related to the outcomes of the meeting.
  
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*Location: Scandic Hotel, Gothenburg, Sweden
 
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**Scandic Hotel, Polhemsplatsen 3, 411 11 Gothenburg, Tel +46 31 751 51 00
 
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*Date/time: March 8, 2012, 10:00-17:00 (coffee from 09:45)
 
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*Registration: add your name to the list at the end of this page, or e-mail [mailto:rene.spronk@ringholm.com Rene Spronk]. There is no registration fee, space is limited.
 
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*Short URL: [http://bit.ly/vtzNDH http://bit.ly/vtzNDH]
 
 
*Core topic: software implementation aspects of Refence Model based applications, focusing on both the 13606/OpenEHR RM as well as the HL7 RIM. Sweden has opted to use 13606/OpenEHR as the base standards for its national infrastructure, which means there should be lots of opportunities to discuss RM based implementation issues.
 
*Core topic: software implementation aspects of Refence Model based applications, focusing on both the 13606/OpenEHR RM as well as the HL7 RIM. Sweden has opted to use 13606/OpenEHR as the base standards for its national infrastructure, which means there should be lots of opportunities to discuss RM based implementation issues.
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*Background on the Swedish projects:
 
*Background on the Swedish projects:
 
*#The ''Nationell Patientöversikt (NPÖ)'' [National Patient Summary] project (General background information: [http://www.cehis.se/vardtjanster/npo/ Swedish site], [http://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=np%C3%B6%20sverige&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CC0QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.orebroll.se%2FFiles-sv%2F%25C3%2596rebro%2520l%25C3%25A4ns%2520landsting%2FOm%2520landstinget%2FInformationsmaterial%2FTrycksaker%2FBroschyr_npo_engelsk_version.pdf&ei=zVI6T5LNGbOY1AWouqWuCw&usg=AFQjCNFmOUP_bsVBRIAETrcOswQ-X4-QaA English flyer] ,[http://www.ehi.co.uk/features/item.cfm?docId=304 Article in e-Health Insider]) is based on 13606-1 (and doesn't use openEHR nor its tools)
 
*#The ''Nationell Patientöversikt (NPÖ)'' [National Patient Summary] project (General background information: [http://www.cehis.se/vardtjanster/npo/ Swedish site], [http://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=np%C3%B6%20sverige&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CC0QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.orebroll.se%2FFiles-sv%2F%25C3%2596rebro%2520l%25C3%25A4ns%2520landsting%2FOm%2520landstinget%2FInformationsmaterial%2FTrycksaker%2FBroschyr_npo_engelsk_version.pdf&ei=zVI6T5LNGbOY1AWouqWuCw&usg=AFQjCNFmOUP_bsVBRIAETrcOswQ-X4-QaA English flyer] ,[http://www.ehi.co.uk/features/item.cfm?docId=304 Article in e-Health Insider]) is based on 13606-1 (and doesn't use openEHR nor its tools)
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==Agenda [[Image:Business-Icon.jpg]] [[Image:Technical med.gif]]==
 
==Agenda [[Image:Business-Icon.jpg]] [[Image:Technical med.gif]]==
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#Administrative agenda items (max 30 minutes)
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#Administrative agenda items (10:00 - 10:30)
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#*Agenda Review/Additions/Changes
 
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#*Approval of the minutes of the [[RIMBAA_201201_Agenda|San Antonio RIMBAA Meeting]] (Jan.2012)
 
 
#*Announcements
 
#*Announcements
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#**Rene: we would like to thank our kind sponsors of this meeting venue, the Hälso & Sjukvårdsavdelningen of the Västra GötalandsRegionen, and particularly Mikael Wintell (CIO/CTO BFR).
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#**Jean: we would like to thank our kind sponsors of this meeting venue, the Hälso & Sjukvårdsavdelningen of the Västra GötalandsRegionen, and particularly Mikael Wintell (CIO/CTO BFR).
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#*Tooling liason update (Michael)
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#**Jean: Rene is ill and wasn't able to attend this meeting.
 
#*Update on the joint 13606/openEHR/HL7 "RMBAA" sessions (Rene Spronk)
 
#*Update on the joint 13606/openEHR/HL7 "RMBAA" sessions (Rene Spronk)
 
#**An initial joint implementer session was held in Sydney, January 2011. See [[RIMBAA 201101 Minutes Sydney]] (Thursday Q3/Q4) for minutes of the joint session.
 
#**An initial joint implementer session was held in Sydney, January 2011. See [[RIMBAA 201101 Minutes Sydney]] (Thursday Q3/Q4) for minutes of the joint session.
 
#**Other openEHR implementers have occasionally presented during RIMBAA meetings; the lack of openEHR face-to-face meetings means that its implementation community is fragmented, which makes it difficult for HL7 RIMBAA to reach out to that community. The HL7 RIMBAA group, from a pure software implementation perspective, remains convinced that there are common issues and best practices between the two reference model based approaches. We will therefore continue to engage the openEHR implementer community.
 
#**Other openEHR implementers have occasionally presented during RIMBAA meetings; the lack of openEHR face-to-face meetings means that its implementation community is fragmented, which makes it difficult for HL7 RIMBAA to reach out to that community. The HL7 RIMBAA group, from a pure software implementation perspective, remains convinced that there are common issues and best practices between the two reference model based approaches. We will therefore continue to engage the openEHR implementer community.
 
#*Agenda setting for the afternoon, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconference Unconference] style: topics are proposed and scheduled by the attendees, on-site, typically using whiteboards or paper taped to the wall.  (max 30 minutes)
 
#*Agenda setting for the afternoon, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconference Unconference] style: topics are proposed and scheduled by the attendees, on-site, typically using whiteboards or paper taped to the wall.  (max 30 minutes)
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#Prepared topic: Comparing HL7 RIM implementation for persistency with RIM for messages exchange (differences, tips and tricks, what to change) (Francesco Rossi/Andrea Ceiner, Max 30 minutes)
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#**Approval of the agenda
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#Prepared topic: Comparing HL7 RIM implementation for persistency with RIM for messages exchange (differences, tips and tricks, what to change) (Francesco Rossi/Andrea Ceiner, 10:30-11:30)
 
#*This presentation will cover V3 Messaging and CDA, using their experiences when implementing the [[RIMBAA: PHI Technology|PHI toolkit]]. Topics will include the PHI Use-case; Performance and data Consistency Problems; RIM Databse data versioning, as well as Best Practices for RIM Databases.
 
#*This presentation will cover V3 Messaging and CDA, using their experiences when implementing the [[RIMBAA: PHI Technology|PHI toolkit]]. Topics will include the PHI Use-case; Performance and data Consistency Problems; RIM Databse data versioning, as well as Best Practices for RIM Databases.
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#Prepared topic: Approaches for "green" 13606/OpenEHR and HL7 messages/documents (Johan Eltes/Rene Spronk, Max 40 minutes)
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#Discussion on Sweden Technology Issues (Lennart Eriksson, 11:30-12:15)
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#*The value of a standard specification for transformation of an ADL (communication) template to a green XML schema (potentially including schematron)
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#UI Components based on Datatypes (Hugh Glover, 12:15-12:30)
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#*Status of [[GreenCDA Project|"green" CDA]] usage
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#Lunch (12:30-13:30)
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#*(Robert Worden, e-mail comment contributed prior to the meeting): In my experience all the model-based healthcare interoperability specifications - including 13606 and openEHR - tend to accumulate a level of technical complexity. Therefore IMO there can be benefit in developing simplified green versions of them for local interfacing purposes, to shield developers who have not learnt the generic and complex wide-spectrum models from the necessity of doing so; to allow much simpler wire forms, and the use of meaningful business names.
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#Prepared topic: PHI Query Manager (Francesco Rossi, 13:30-14:15)
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#**Of course if you devise any simple localised XML, it must be rigorously linked to the model-based specifications, by transforms in both directions which are 100% reliable - or you throw away the value of the model-based spec, and lose interoperability with those who have implemented it. This means the transforms should be auto-generated and not e.g. hand-written XSLT, with testable round-trips. My tools could do this greening and auto-generated transforms for 13606, but there is always some work to do in linking them up to whatever tools or formalism are used on the model-based side - eg for HL7, MIF files, schematron templates, MDHT, etc. There would be corresponding tool-bridging work to do for a green 13606. 
 
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#**When you make a green CDA, you get a green class model as well as green XML. This green class model is much simpler than the full class model you start from, and is a very good basis for model-based development. This was the basis of my 'RIMBAA to SIMBAA' talk at the september WGM (see the '''September 15 (THU Q3)''' section of the  [[RIMBAA 201109 Minutes San Diego|meeting minutes]]) and it would equally apply to 13606.
 
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#Prepared topic: PHI Query Manager (Francesco Rossi, Max 30 minutes)
 
 
#*This presentation will cover the use of MIF by a QueryManager application to retrieve data from a HL7 RIM db. It also covers the QueryManager architecture.  
 
#*This presentation will cover the use of MIF by a QueryManager application to retrieve data from a HL7 RIM db. It also covers the QueryManager architecture.  
 
#**General discussion: comparison with AQL OpenEHR.
 
#**General discussion: comparison with AQL OpenEHR.
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#''Other presentations and discussion topics''
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#Why Sweden chose 13606? (Helen Broberg, 14:15-14:30)
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#National Patient Summary Overview (Viktor Jernelov, 14:30-15:00)
  
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==Registrations==
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==Attendees==
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There is no registration fee; space is limited to 25 attendees.
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#Jean-Henri Duteau, (GP Informatics, CA)
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#Rene Spronk, co-chair RIMBAA, tutor/consultant, (Ringholm, NL)
 
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#Johan Eltes, Member Cehis technical Expert group, (Callista Enterprise AB, SE)
 
 
#Andrea Ceiner, (Insiel Mercato, IT)
 
#Andrea Ceiner, (Insiel Mercato, IT)
 
#Pekka Kola, (Tieto, FI)
 
#Pekka Kola, (Tieto, FI)
 
#Francesco Rossi (Insiel Mercato, IT)
 
#Francesco Rossi (Insiel Mercato, IT)
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#Ewout Kramer (Furore, NL)
 
 
#Andy Stechishin (CANA Software, CA)
 
#Andy Stechishin (CANA Software, CA)
 
#Helen Broberg, Informatics Architect, (County council of Region Skåne, SE)
 
#Helen Broberg, Informatics Architect, (County council of Region Skåne, SE)
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#Jean-Henri Duteau, (GP Informatics, CA)
 
 
#Viktor Jernelöv, (Mawell, SE)
 
#Viktor Jernelöv, (Mawell, SE)
 
#Lennart Eriksson, t.f. responsible for technology in CeHis AL-T (Onroute, SE)
 
#Lennart Eriksson, t.f. responsible for technology in CeHis AL-T (Onroute, SE)
 
#Tomas Rasmusson, information architect (Västra GötalandsRegionen, SE)
 
#Tomas Rasmusson, information architect (Västra GötalandsRegionen, SE)
 
#Lars Börjeson, (Västra GötalandsRegionen, SE)
 
#Lars Börjeson, (Västra GötalandsRegionen, SE)
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#Rikard Ekström, (Tieto, SE)
 
 
#Mikael Wintell (CIO/CTO BFR, CSO VGR, SE)
 
#Mikael Wintell (CIO/CTO BFR, CSO VGR, SE)
 
#Hugh Glover (Blue Wave Informatics, UK)
 
#Hugh Glover (Blue Wave Informatics, UK)
 
#Bertil Reppen (Apertura, NO)
 
#Bertil Reppen (Apertura, NO)

Latest revision as of 09:14, 13 April 2012

These are the RIMBAA WG notes of the informal meeting (WGM #35) held in Gothenburg, March 8th 2012

  • Note: due to illness no co-chair was present, as such the meeting was an informal one. No decisions were made. Below are some notes related to the outcomes of the meeting.
  • Core topic: software implementation aspects of Refence Model based applications, focusing on both the 13606/OpenEHR RM as well as the HL7 RIM. Sweden has opted to use 13606/OpenEHR as the base standards for its national infrastructure, which means there should be lots of opportunities to discuss RM based implementation issues.
  • Background on the Swedish projects:
    1. The Nationell Patientöversikt (NPÖ) [National Patient Summary] project (General background information: Swedish site, English flyer ,Article in e-Health Insider) is based on 13606-1 (and doesn't use openEHR nor its tools)
      • From an architectural perspective, the architecture can be compared to that of XDS, using a combination of persisted documents (long term persistence) and documents that (when queried) are constructed on-the fly, incorporating the latest available information. The long term persistence application doesn't used the 13606 extract as its persistence model, but HL7's SDA (Structured Document Architecture). SDA is transformed into 13606 extracts (and vice versa).
    2. High level OpenEHR archetypes (based on Swedish requirements models, there is no reuse of international achetypes) have been defined for use in (future) projects.

Agenda Business-Icon.jpg Technical med.gif

  1. Administrative agenda items (10:00 - 10:30)
    • Announcements
      • Jean: we would like to thank our kind sponsors of this meeting venue, the Hälso & Sjukvårdsavdelningen of the Västra GötalandsRegionen, and particularly Mikael Wintell (CIO/CTO BFR).
      • Jean: Rene is ill and wasn't able to attend this meeting.
    • Update on the joint 13606/openEHR/HL7 "RMBAA" sessions (Rene Spronk)
      • An initial joint implementer session was held in Sydney, January 2011. See RIMBAA 201101 Minutes Sydney (Thursday Q3/Q4) for minutes of the joint session.
      • Other openEHR implementers have occasionally presented during RIMBAA meetings; the lack of openEHR face-to-face meetings means that its implementation community is fragmented, which makes it difficult for HL7 RIMBAA to reach out to that community. The HL7 RIMBAA group, from a pure software implementation perspective, remains convinced that there are common issues and best practices between the two reference model based approaches. We will therefore continue to engage the openEHR implementer community.
    • Agenda setting for the afternoon, Unconference style: topics are proposed and scheduled by the attendees, on-site, typically using whiteboards or paper taped to the wall. (max 30 minutes)
      • Approval of the agenda
  2. Prepared topic: Comparing HL7 RIM implementation for persistency with RIM for messages exchange (differences, tips and tricks, what to change) (Francesco Rossi/Andrea Ceiner, 10:30-11:30)
    • This presentation will cover V3 Messaging and CDA, using their experiences when implementing the PHI toolkit. Topics will include the PHI Use-case; Performance and data Consistency Problems; RIM Databse data versioning, as well as Best Practices for RIM Databases.
  3. Discussion on Sweden Technology Issues (Lennart Eriksson, 11:30-12:15)
  4. UI Components based on Datatypes (Hugh Glover, 12:15-12:30)
  5. Lunch (12:30-13:30)
  6. Prepared topic: PHI Query Manager (Francesco Rossi, 13:30-14:15)
    • This presentation will cover the use of MIF by a QueryManager application to retrieve data from a HL7 RIM db. It also covers the QueryManager architecture.
      • General discussion: comparison with AQL OpenEHR.
  7. Why Sweden chose 13606? (Helen Broberg, 14:15-14:30)
  8. National Patient Summary Overview (Viktor Jernelov, 14:30-15:00)

Attendees

  1. Jean-Henri Duteau, (GP Informatics, CA)
  2. Andrea Ceiner, (Insiel Mercato, IT)
  3. Pekka Kola, (Tieto, FI)
  4. Francesco Rossi (Insiel Mercato, IT)
  5. Andy Stechishin (CANA Software, CA)
  6. Helen Broberg, Informatics Architect, (County council of Region Skåne, SE)
  7. Viktor Jernelöv, (Mawell, SE)
  8. Lennart Eriksson, t.f. responsible for technology in CeHis AL-T (Onroute, SE)
  9. Tomas Rasmusson, information architect (Västra GötalandsRegionen, SE)
  10. Lars Börjeson, (Västra GötalandsRegionen, SE)
  11. Mikael Wintell (CIO/CTO BFR, CSO VGR, SE)
  12. Hugh Glover (Blue Wave Informatics, UK)
  13. Bertil Reppen (Apertura, NO)
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