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==WED Q6 (19:00-21:00) Royal Palm Salon 1 [[Image:Technical med.gif]]==
 
==WED Q6 (19:00-21:00) Royal Palm Salon 1 [[Image:Technical med.gif]]==
 
#Administrative agenda items
 
#Administrative agenda items
−
#OpenCDS - implementation aspects of a clinical decision support application based on the HL7 vMR standard (Ken Kawamoto, co-chair CDS WG, University of Utah) (max. 30 minutes)
+
#OpenCDS - implementation aspects of a clinical decision support application based on the HL7  
−
##(Kawamoto) A brief introduction to OpenCDS and how it is using the proposed vMR standard (basically a simplified view of the RIM for CDS)
+
 
−
##(Andrew McIntyre) demo of the Gello authoring tool and how it can read v3 messages and a vmr defined by the grammar that is being balloted. The relationship with [[Query Expression and Execution Technology]] will be discussed as well.
+
vMR standard (Ken Kawamoto, co-chair CDS WG, University of Utah) (max. 30 minutes)
−
#*As a reference, the standard slide set for OpenCDS is available as the top link in the References section of [http://www.opencds.org www.opencds.org].
+
##(Kawamoto) A brief introduction to OpenCDS and how it is using the proposed vMR standard  
−
#Resources For Health: A Fresh Look Proposal (Grahame Grieve, max 60 minutes).
+
 
−
#*RFH in essence proposes a RESTful protocol in conjunction with XML-based Resources (which in RIMBAA align neatly with our concept of SMIRFs). The XML has a predefined structure, elements are linked to a RIM-based data dictionary. This is basically the same thought as the Micro ITS. I called his approach "HL7 v3 taken to the next step" - it combines some recent best practices in implementing v3 with a number of internet/open standards.
+
(basically a simplified view of the RIM for CDS)
−
#**In the lead up to the announcement to RFH Grahame's posted a series of comments on HL7 version 3, for example [http://www.healthintersections.com.au/?p=476 HL7 needs a fresh look because V3 has failed]  and [http://www.healthintersections.com.au/?p=482 HL7 needs a fresh look because V3 has succeeded] - which each generated a fair number of comments. His earlier blogpost [http://www.healthintersections.com.au/?p=141 Context of Interoperability] (and notably the concept of Drive By Interoperability) reads like the rationale for some of the key design decisions in RFH.  
+
##(Andrew McIntyre) demo of the Gello authoring tool and how it can read v3 messages and a vmr  
−
#**The original announcement of RFH (with comments) can be found [http://www.healthintersections.com.au/?p=502 here], RFH itself is documented at [http://www.healthintersections.com.au/rfh/introduction.htm http://www.healthintersections.com.au/rfh/introduction.htm]
+
 
−
#*Grahame will discuss implementation aspects of RFH, as well as the relationship between a [[Resource]] and a [[SMIRF]], issues around aggregation of resources and the querying of sets of resources.
+
defined by the grammar that is being balloted. The relationship with [[Query Expression and  
 +
 
 +
Execution Technology]] will be discussed as well.
 +
#*As a reference, the standard slide set for OpenCDS is available as the top link in the  
 +
 
 +
References section of [http://www.opencds.org www.opencds.org].
 +
#*VMR = common information model upon with CDs rules can be applied
 +
#*Uses simplified 21090 data types, e.g. removed nullFlavor. Work based a lot on simplifications
 +
 
 +
of existing v3 work.
 +
#*OpenCDS -open source webservice implementation of CDS. Data payloads = CCD, VMR. Standard
 +
 
 +
internal model = VMR.
 +
#*Andrew: DSTU BNF for GELLO has just been published. IDE is a GELLO interpreter. GELLO is a
 +
 
 +
functionallanguage, which takes getting used to. Efficient fr running queries. Has been
 +
 
 +
implemented in an Arden system. Arden produces the action when processing the data which was
 +
 
 +
retrieved with a GELLO query. Results (from GELLO query) provided to Arden as JSON. IDE suppots
 +
 
 +
inferencing over SNOMED. See [http://wiki.medical-objects.com.au/index.php/GELLO].
 +
#*Discussion: GELLO = OCL optimized for use with HL7. OCl constraints language, GELLO query
 +
 
 +
languages.
 +
#*Ewout: is this (GELLO) a separate product? - Yes. Queries evaluated in memory? For single
 +
 
 +
patient queries, yes. Lazy loading anyway. Population queries are done differently.  
 +
#Resources For Health: A Fresh Look Proposal (Grahame Grieve).
 +
#*RFH in essence proposes a RESTful protocol in conjunction with XML-based Resources (which in  
 +
 
 +
RIMBAA align neatly with our concept of SMIRFs). The XML has a predefined structure, elements  
 +
 
 +
are linked to a RIM-based data dictionary. This is basically the same thought as the Micro ITS.  
 +
 
 +
I called his approach "HL7 v3 taken to the next step" - it combines some recent best practices  
 +
 
 +
in implementing v3 with a number of internet/open standards.
 +
 
 +
#*Grahame starts with a 15-minute introduction & background. Started in Orlando, not a positive
 +
 
 +
meeting for Grahame. At a crossraods how to support interoperability. Mainly delivery aspect. So
 +
 
 +
he looked at state of the art - lead to Highrise API (37signals). Raving reviews, write books,
 +
 
 +
people love it. G do it this way, started writing. It's substantially incomplete. There's an
 +
 
 +
appetatite for change within th eorg. This is one possible change.  
 +
#**RFH-intro: In the lead up to the announcement to RFH Grahame's posted a series of comments on  
 +
 
 +
HL7 version 3, for example [http://www.healthintersections.com.au/?p=476 HL7 needs a fresh look  
 +
 
 +
because V3 has failed]  and [http://www.healthintersections.com.au/?p=482 HL7 needs a fresh look  
 +
 
 +
because V3 has succeeded] - which each generated a fair number of comments. His earlier blogpost  
 +
 
 +
[http://www.healthintersections.com.au/?p=141 Context of Interoperability] (and notably the  
 +
 
 +
concept of Drive By Interoperability) reads like the rationale for some of the key design  
 +
 
 +
decisions in RFH. The original announcement of RFH (with comments) can be found  
 +
 
 +
[http://www.healthintersections.com.au/?p=502 here], RFH itself is documented at  
 +
 
 +
[http://www.healthintersections.com.au/rfh/introduction.htm  
 +
 
 +
http://www.healthintersections.com.au/rfh/introduction.htm]
 +
#**Resources, in XML format. Lots of stuff behind it, but that's hidden from the users. Can be
 +
 
 +
surfaced if they want to. Data dictionary, full blown richness for OWL work.
 +
#**REST is a starting point, don't have to use it, has lots of tools for it.
 +
#*Grahame on implementation aspects of RFH, as well as the relationship between a [[Resource]]  
 +
 
 +
and a [[SMIRF]], issues around aggregation of resources and the querying of sets of resources.
 +
#*Architecture. Ewout: how does this fit within our architecture? Peter: communication, exchange
 +
 
 +
model. G: exchange happens between systems that have data in manageble pieces.
 +
#*Persistence
 +
#**Grahame on adding a persistence layer: use a hibernate thing absed on the implicit object
 +
 
 +
model in the XML. Wireformat to objects to hibernate. Or store as a blob, idnex the things
 +
 
 +
needed for searching. Gerald: both should be supportable. Ewout: couchDB/Mongo are asy to use.
 +
#**Aggregation versus persistence. decompose ans tire individuals, or store aggregate.
 +
#**Rene: Could shred the data in a resource to RIM primitives (based on the data dictionary) and
 +
 
 +
sorte in a pure RIM-based database. (??) Some bits not mapped to the RIM.
 +
#*Lloyd: resources are cool, fixed format. There are circumstances that a full resource seems
 +
 
 +
overkill. Allowing constraints leads to the v3 nightmare of many models. G: less of a problem
 +
 
 +
than in v2. If elements aren't mandatory, don't send them. Conformance framework allows
 +
 
 +
expressing: don't send me that. L: maybe include in definition of documents (aggregates) some
 +
 
 +
filters (conformance profiles). Andy: if E limited set of resources.
 +
#*Re-use of existing work (DIM, R-MIMs)
 +
#**G: all existing models are closed models. Requires that a DIM is quite comprehensive. Have to
 +
 
 +
create a complete model only to cover a few important bits. Any: we wouldn't throw away those
 +
 
 +
models.
 +
#*AMS: How does contraints extensions work
 +
#**Conformamce statements in RFH; extension-section in each and every resource.
 +
#*Gerald: relationship with hData
 +
#*G: nullFlavor
 +
#**now: dataAbsentReason.
 +
#**In resources, no use of xsi:type.  
  
 
==THU Q2 (11:00-12:30) Tooling WG [room: Clarendon] [[Image:Technical med.gif]]==
 
==THU Q2 (11:00-12:30) Tooling WG [room: Clarendon] [[Image:Technical med.gif]]==
−
*Note: this is a meeting of the Tooling WG, RIMBAA representatives have been requested to attend. See [[Tooling WGM 2011 Sept|Tooling agenda for this WGM.]]
+
*Note: this is a meeting of the Tooling WG, RIMBAA representatives have been requested to  
 +
 
 +
attend. See [[Tooling WGM 2011 Sept|Tooling agenda for this WGM.]]
 
*Topic up for discussion: Tooling Tactical Plan, Formalize liaisons to other WG.
 
*Topic up for discussion: Tooling Tactical Plan, Formalize liaisons to other WG.
−
*The tactical plan will be changed to (at the request of the board) include tools for software implementers [of standards], whereas the focus up to now has been on tools for standards development.
+
*The tactical plan will be changed to (at the request of the board) include tools for software  
−
*#The most important tools are probably v3 code generators (Everest, jEverest, MDHT). A tool like Everest would probably benefit most by a form of 'official recognition' are a 'statement of quality' by HL7, and by a Marketing effort to make it much wider aware that such tools exist. Yes, I'm sure they'd like to receive feedback/review of their tools, and they'll probably take any money we'd care to give them, but in the larger scheme of things 'getting the word out' is probably the key thing towards an increase in adoption of these tools. Tooling could reach out to the creators of such tools, even if the development wasn't part of HL7 or OHT, and form some sort of liason with them.
+
 
−
*#Another one that we have identified: re-usable data types R1/R2 programming libraries (for validation of data types, to support data type methods such as =, >, != or << -- note: this library is not about serialization/deserialization). The OHT toolsuite has such a library, as has MDHT, the instance editor, Everest, .. and most applications that are serious about supporting v3. Yet all these groups and vendors have had to reinvent a data types library. That is nonsensical. IMHO we'll need to invest some money in creating a re-usable library in c#/Java to support data types R1/R2. One could probably be created by stripping parts from the existing libraries - and adding new stuff.  
+
implementers [of standards], whereas the focus up to now has been on tools for standards  
 +
 
 +
development.
 +
*#The most important tools are probably v3 code generators (Everest, jEverest, MDHT). A tool  
 +
 
 +
like Everest would probably benefit most by a form of 'official recognition' are a 'statement of  
 +
 
 +
quality' by HL7, and by a Marketing effort to make it much wider aware that such tools exist.  
 +
 
 +
Yes, I'm sure they'd like to receive feedback/review of their tools, and they'll probably take  
 +
 
 +
any money we'd care to give them, but in the larger scheme of things 'getting the word out' is  
 +
 
 +
probably the key thing towards an increase in adoption of these tools. Tooling could reach out  
 +
 
 +
to the creators of such tools, even if the development wasn't part of HL7 or OHT, and form some  
 +
 
 +
sort of liason with them.
 +
*#Another one that we have identified: re-usable data types R1/R2 programming libraries (for  
 +
 
 +
validation of data types, to support data type methods such as =, >, != or << -- note: this  
 +
 
 +
library is not about serialization/deserialization). The OHT toolsuite has such a library, as  
 +
 
 +
has MDHT, the instance editor, Everest, .. and most applications that are serious about  
 +
 
 +
supporting v3. Yet all these groups and vendors have had to reinvent a data types library. That  
 +
 
 +
is nonsensical. IMHO we'll need to invest some money in creating a re-usable library in c#/Java  
 +
 
 +
to support data types R1/R2. One could probably be created by stripping parts from the existing  
 +
 
 +
libraries - and adding new stuff.  
  
 
==THU Q3 (13:45-15:00) Crescent [[Image:Technical med.gif]]==
 
==THU Q3 (13:45-15:00) Crescent [[Image:Technical med.gif]]==
Line 26: Line 167:
 
#**[[RIMBAA 201201 Agenda|WGM in San Antonio, USA]] (Jan. 2012)
 
#**[[RIMBAA 201201 Agenda|WGM in San Antonio, USA]] (Jan. 2012)
 
#*Request for a joint meeting by Tooling
 
#*Request for a joint meeting by Tooling
−
#**Andy (Tooling) As part of Tooling's mandate to extend to 'user tools' , we would like to schedule a joint session for San Antonio (we host?). We see RIMBAA architects and developers as users/implementer's of the standards and would like to discuss requirements, how to align, and next steps.
+
#**Andy (Tooling) As part of Tooling's mandate to extend to 'user tools' , we would like to  
−
#**We had discussed this quarter as in addition to Tooling's regular Tues Q1,Q2; Thurs Q1, Q2. Thursday Q3 & Q4 is the Tooling Tutorial, so we tend to block that time out. Other than that we are open to suggestions.
+
 
 +
schedule a joint session for San Antonio (we host?). We see RIMBAA architects and developers as  
 +
 
 +
users/implementer's of the standards and would like to discuss requirements, how to align, and  
 +
 
 +
next steps.
 +
#**We had discussed this quarter as in addition to Tooling's regular Tues Q1,Q2; Thurs Q1, Q2.  
 +
 
 +
Thursday Q3 & Q4 is the Tooling Tutorial, so we tend to block that time out. Other than that we  
 +
 
 +
are open to suggestions.
 
#Code generation based on "green" HL7 v3 models (Robert Worden, Phil Scott, 45 minutes)
 
#Code generation based on "green" HL7 v3 models (Robert Worden, Phil Scott, 45 minutes)
−
#*A by-product of defining a Green CDA or Green RMIM with the Open Mapping tools is the creation of a simplified class model with precise mappings to a RIM-based model. The simplified class model, expressed in EMF Ecore, can be used for model-based application development, model-based query, or for mapping to other XML dialects to generate transforms. This will be illustrated by examples: Green CDA, Creen C32 with a bridge from MDHT models, Green Lab model.
+
#*A by-product of defining a Green CDA or Green RMIM with the Open Mapping tools is the creation  
 +
 
 +
of a simplified class model with precise mappings to a RIM-based model. The simplified class  
 +
 
 +
model, expressed in EMF Ecore, can be used for model-based application development, model-based  
 +
 
 +
query, or for mapping to other XML dialects to generate transforms. This will be illustrated by  
 +
 
 +
examples: Green CDA, Creen C32 with a bridge from MDHT models, Green Lab model.
 
#Possible creation of a 'reference implementation'  
 
#Possible creation of a 'reference implementation'  
 
#*Discussion of whether or not we want to have/create one
 
#*Discussion of whether or not we want to have/create one
Line 67: Line 226:
 
|X||Madan Gopal||Arizona dept. of Health Services, US||madan.gopal@azdhs.gov
 
|X||Madan Gopal||Arizona dept. of Health Services, US||madan.gopal@azdhs.gov
 
|-
 
|-
−
|X||Michael van der Zel||Groningen University Hospital, <br/>and Results4Care, NL||m.van.der.zel@umcg.nl
+
|X||Michael van der Zel||Groningen University Hospital, <br/>and Results4Care,  
 +
 
 +
NL||m.van.der.zel@umcg.nl
 
|-
 
|-
 
|X||Peter Hendler||KP, US||peter@hendler.net
 
|X||Peter Hendler||KP, US||peter@hendler.net
Line 81: Line 242:
 
#*Announcements
 
#*Announcements
 
#*Approval of the minutes of the [[RIMBAA 201105 Agenda|Orlando WGM]] (May 2011)  
 
#*Approval of the minutes of the [[RIMBAA 201105 Agenda|Orlando WGM]] (May 2011)  
−
#**MOTION to approve the minutes of the RIMBAA meeting in Orlando, as available on the HL7 website ([http://www.hl7.org/documentcenter/public/wg/java/minutes/RIMBAA_May2011_Minutes_Orlando.zip http://www.hl7.org/documentcenter/public/wg/java/minutes/RIMBAA_May2011_Minutes_Orlando.zip]). Peter/Michael, 9-0-1 (Y-N-Abst)
+
#**MOTION to approve the minutes of the RIMBAA meeting in Orlando, as available on the HL7  
 +
 
 +
website  
 +
 
 +
([http://www.hl7.org/documentcenter/public/wg/java/minutes/RIMBAA_May2011_Minutes_Orlando.zip  
 +
 
 +
http://www.hl7.org/documentcenter/public/wg/java/minutes/RIMBAA_May2011_Minutes_Orlando.zip]).  
 +
 
 +
Peter/Michael, 9-0-1 (Y-N-Abst)
 
#*Annual (brief) review of the [[RIMBAA Mission and Charter]]
 
#*Annual (brief) review of the [[RIMBAA Mission and Charter]]
 
#**Reviewed, no changes
 
#**Reviewed, no changes
 
#*Annual (brief) review of the [[RIMBAA SWOT]]
 
#*Annual (brief) review of the [[RIMBAA SWOT]]
−
#**Add to 'weaknesses' - most implementers are not authors, which makes it hard to create whitepapers
+
#**Add to 'weaknesses' - most implementers are not authors, which makes it hard to create  
 +
 
 +
whitepapers
 
#**Duane offers to ask a post-graduate at Mohawk college to assist/author whitepapers.
 
#**Duane offers to ask a post-graduate at Mohawk college to assist/author whitepapers.
−
#*Update of the [[RIMBAA three year plan]] and the [[Creation of a Set of RIMBAA Whitepapers]] project.
+
#*Update of the [[RIMBAA three year plan]] and the [[Creation of a Set of RIMBAA Whitepapers]]  
−
#**3-year plan: may wish to add the creation of a 'reference implementation'. Add issue to the agenda of our Thursday Q3 meeting
+
 
 +
project.
 +
#**3-year plan: may wish to add the creation of a 'reference implementation'. Add issue to the  
 +
 
 +
agenda of our Thursday Q3 meeting
 
#**Whitepapers: Michael offers to write one on the topic of 'using RIMBAA in clinical research'.
 
#**Whitepapers: Michael offers to write one on the topic of 'using RIMBAA in clinical research'.
 
#*Brief update on the [[Fresh Look]] activities by Michael van der Zel
 
#*Brief update on the [[Fresh Look]] activities by Michael van der Zel
 
#**No relevant activities for RIMBAA, focus is on clinical models and modelling.
 
#**No relevant activities for RIMBAA, focus is on clinical models and modelling.
−
#Everest: a MIF based code generator for .net (Justin Fyfe, Mohawk College, CA, see [http://www.hl7.org/documentcenter/public/wg/java/20110912%20everest%20-%20HL7%20-%20RIMBAA.pptx http://www.hl7.org/documentcenter/public/wg/java/20110912%20everest%20-%20HL7%20-%20RIMBAA.pptx] for his slides)
+
#Everest: a MIF based code generator for .net (Justin Fyfe, Mohawk College, CA, see  
−
#*Everest (see [http://blog.marc-hi.ca/blog/ http://blog.marc-hi.ca/blog/]) is a [[MIF]] based code/class generator for .net. In 2011 it was announced that the toolkit now offerst support for MIFs published in universal-realm normative editions, and the roadmap envisions a Java version as well. Everest has been presented before during a RIMBAA meeting, see [[RIMBAA: Marc-HI Everest]].
+
 
 +
[http://www.hl7.org/documentcenter/public/wg/java/20110912%20everest%20-%20HL7%20-%20RIMBAA.pptx  
 +
 
 +
http://www.hl7.org/documentcenter/public/wg/java/20110912%20everest%20-%20HL7%20-%20RIMBAA.pptx]  
 +
 
 +
for his slides)
 +
#*Everest (see [http://blog.marc-hi.ca/blog/ http://blog.marc-hi.ca/blog/]) is a [[MIF]] based  
 +
 
 +
code/class generator for .net. In 2011 it was announced that the toolkit now offerst support for  
 +
 
 +
MIFs published in universal-realm normative editions, and the roadmap envisions a Java version  
 +
 
 +
as well. Everest has been presented before during a RIMBAA meeting, see [[RIMBAA: Marc-HI  
 +
 
 +
Everest]].
 
#*Justin introduces the toolkit, its architecture
 
#*Justin introduces the toolkit, its architecture
−
#*He also shows some of the details of the data type library (See his blogposts: [http://blog.marc-hi.ca/blog/?p=90 Everest 1.0 Data Type Operations], [http://blog.marc-hi.ca/blog/?p=103 IVL and PIVL]) and how one could re-use the data type libraries as contained in Everest / jEverest (for example, see this blogpost: [http://www.mgrid.net/blogs/connect-to-mgrid-using-dot-net Connect to MGRID using Everest]).
+
#*He also shows some of the details of the data type library (See his blogposts:  
−
#*.net/Java platform. maintain 2 codebasis, no automated translation. use features of the platform.
+
 
 +
[http://blog.marc-hi.ca/blog/?p=90 Everest 1.0 Data Type Operations], [http://blog.marc-
 +
 
 +
hi.ca/blog/?p=103 IVL and PIVL]) and how one could re-use the data type libraries as contained  
 +
 
 +
in Everest / jEverest (for example, see this blogpost: [http://www.mgrid.net/blogs/connect-to-
 +
 
 +
mgrid-using-dot-net Connect to MGRID using Everest]).
 +
#*.net/Java platform. maintain 2 codebasis, no automated translation. use features of the  
 +
 
 +
platform.
 
#*jEverest -  Java version of Everest.  
 
#*jEverest -  Java version of Everest.  
−
#*'from MIF to code' slide: GPMR general purpose MIf reformatter. COR = OO representation of the model. Run an optimizer,  
+
#*'from MIF to code' slide: GPMR general purpose MIf reformatter. COR = OO representation of the  
 +
 
 +
model. Run an optimizer,  
 
#*detect re-usable bits in the models.
 
#*detect re-usable bits in the models.
 
#*COR renderer into other formats e.g. C#/HTML/Java/JSON
 
#*COR renderer into other formats e.g. C#/HTML/Java/JSON
Line 152: Line 353:
 
|&nbsp;||Chris Melo||Philips, US||chris.melo@philips.com
 
|&nbsp;||Chris Melo||Philips, US||chris.melo@philips.com
 
|-
 
|-
−
|&nbsp;||Chris Winters||Vocollect Healthcare Systems, Inc., US||cwinters@healthcare.vocollect.com
+
|&nbsp;||Chris Winters||Vocollect Healthcare Systems, Inc.,  
 +
 
 +
US||cwinters@healthcare.vocollect.com
 
|-
 
|-
 
|&nbsp;||Dale Nelson||, US||dale.nelson@squaretrends.com   
 
|&nbsp;||Dale Nelson||, US||dale.nelson@squaretrends.com   
Line 238: Line 441:
 
|&nbsp;||Massimo Frossi||Ital TBS, IT||massimo.frossi@italtbs.com
 
|&nbsp;||Massimo Frossi||Ital TBS, IT||massimo.frossi@italtbs.com
 
|-
 
|-
−
|&nbsp;||Michael van der Zel||Groningen University Hospital, <br/>and Results4Care, NL||m.van.der.zel@umcg.nl
+
|&nbsp;||Michael van der Zel||Groningen University Hospital, <br/>and Results4Care,  
 +
 
 +
NL||m.van.der.zel@umcg.nl
 
|-
 
|-
 
|&nbsp;||Mike Rossman||KP, US||michael.k.rossman@kp.org
 
|&nbsp;||Mike Rossman||KP, US||michael.k.rossman@kp.org

Revision as of 05:12, 15 September 2011

This is the RIMBAA WG agenda of the WGM in San Diego, September 2011

WED Q6 (19:00-21:00) Royal Palm Salon 1 Technical med.gif

  1. Administrative agenda items
  2. OpenCDS - implementation aspects of a clinical decision support application based on the HL7

vMR standard (Ken Kawamoto, co-chair CDS WG, University of Utah) (max. 30 minutes)

    1. (Kawamoto) A brief introduction to OpenCDS and how it is using the proposed vMR standard

(basically a simplified view of the RIM for CDS)

    1. (Andrew McIntyre) demo of the Gello authoring tool and how it can read v3 messages and a vmr

defined by the grammar that is being balloted. The relationship with [[Query Expression and

Execution Technology]] will be discussed as well.

    • As a reference, the standard slide set for OpenCDS is available as the top link in the

References section of www.opencds.org.

    • VMR = common information model upon with CDs rules can be applied
    • Uses simplified 21090 data types, e.g. removed nullFlavor. Work based a lot on simplifications

of existing v3 work.

    • OpenCDS -open source webservice implementation of CDS. Data payloads = CCD, VMR. Standard

internal model = VMR.

    • Andrew: DSTU BNF for GELLO has just been published. IDE is a GELLO interpreter. GELLO is a

functionallanguage, which takes getting used to. Efficient fr running queries. Has been

implemented in an Arden system. Arden produces the action when processing the data which was

retrieved with a GELLO query. Results (from GELLO query) provided to Arden as JSON. IDE suppots

inferencing over SNOMED. See [1].

    • Discussion: GELLO = OCL optimized for use with HL7. OCl constraints language, GELLO query

languages.

    • Ewout: is this (GELLO) a separate product? - Yes. Queries evaluated in memory? For single

patient queries, yes. Lazy loading anyway. Population queries are done differently.

  1. Resources For Health: A Fresh Look Proposal (Grahame Grieve).
    • RFH in essence proposes a RESTful protocol in conjunction with XML-based Resources (which in

RIMBAA align neatly with our concept of SMIRFs). The XML has a predefined structure, elements

are linked to a RIM-based data dictionary. This is basically the same thought as the Micro ITS.

I called his approach "HL7 v3 taken to the next step" - it combines some recent best practices

in implementing v3 with a number of internet/open standards.

    • Grahame starts with a 15-minute introduction & background. Started in Orlando, not a positive

meeting for Grahame. At a crossraods how to support interoperability. Mainly delivery aspect. So

he looked at state of the art - lead to Highrise API (37signals). Raving reviews, write books,

people love it. G do it this way, started writing. It's substantially incomplete. There's an

appetatite for change within th eorg. This is one possible change.

      • RFH-intro: In the lead up to the announcement to RFH Grahame's posted a series of comments on

HL7 version 3, for example [http://www.healthintersections.com.au/?p=476 HL7 needs a fresh look

because V3 has failed] and [http://www.healthintersections.com.au/?p=482 HL7 needs a fresh look

because V3 has succeeded] - which each generated a fair number of comments. His earlier blogpost

Context of Interoperability (and notably the

concept of Drive By Interoperability) reads like the rationale for some of the key design

decisions in RFH. The original announcement of RFH (with comments) can be found

here, RFH itself is documented at

[http://www.healthintersections.com.au/rfh/introduction.htm

http://www.healthintersections.com.au/rfh/introduction.htm]

      • Resources, in XML format. Lots of stuff behind it, but that's hidden from the users. Can be

surfaced if they want to. Data dictionary, full blown richness for OWL work.

      • REST is a starting point, don't have to use it, has lots of tools for it.
    • Grahame on implementation aspects of RFH, as well as the relationship between a Resource

and a SMIRF, issues around aggregation of resources and the querying of sets of resources.

    • Architecture. Ewout: how does this fit within our architecture? Peter: communication, exchange

model. G: exchange happens between systems that have data in manageble pieces.

    • Persistence
      • Grahame on adding a persistence layer: use a hibernate thing absed on the implicit object

model in the XML. Wireformat to objects to hibernate. Or store as a blob, idnex the things

needed for searching. Gerald: both should be supportable. Ewout: couchDB/Mongo are asy to use.

      • Aggregation versus persistence. decompose ans tire individuals, or store aggregate.
      • Rene: Could shred the data in a resource to RIM primitives (based on the data dictionary) and

sorte in a pure RIM-based database. (??) Some bits not mapped to the RIM.

    • Lloyd: resources are cool, fixed format. There are circumstances that a full resource seems

overkill. Allowing constraints leads to the v3 nightmare of many models. G: less of a problem

than in v2. If elements aren't mandatory, don't send them. Conformance framework allows

expressing: don't send me that. L: maybe include in definition of documents (aggregates) some

filters (conformance profiles). Andy: if E limited set of resources.

    • Re-use of existing work (DIM, R-MIMs)
      • G: all existing models are closed models. Requires that a DIM is quite comprehensive. Have to

create a complete model only to cover a few important bits. Any: we wouldn't throw away those

models.

    • AMS: How does contraints extensions work
      • Conformamce statements in RFH; extension-section in each and every resource.
    • Gerald: relationship with hData
    • G: nullFlavor
      • now: dataAbsentReason.
      • In resources, no use of xsi:type.

THU Q2 (11:00-12:30) Tooling WG [room: Clarendon] Technical med.gif

  • Note: this is a meeting of the Tooling WG, RIMBAA representatives have been requested to

attend. See Tooling agenda for this WGM.

  • Topic up for discussion: Tooling Tactical Plan, Formalize liaisons to other WG.
  • The tactical plan will be changed to (at the request of the board) include tools for software

implementers [of standards], whereas the focus up to now has been on tools for standards

development.

    1. The most important tools are probably v3 code generators (Everest, jEverest, MDHT). A tool

like Everest would probably benefit most by a form of 'official recognition' are a 'statement of

quality' by HL7, and by a Marketing effort to make it much wider aware that such tools exist.

Yes, I'm sure they'd like to receive feedback/review of their tools, and they'll probably take

any money we'd care to give them, but in the larger scheme of things 'getting the word out' is

probably the key thing towards an increase in adoption of these tools. Tooling could reach out

to the creators of such tools, even if the development wasn't part of HL7 or OHT, and form some

sort of liason with them.

    1. Another one that we have identified: re-usable data types R1/R2 programming libraries (for

validation of data types, to support data type methods such as =, >, != or << -- note: this

library is not about serialization/deserialization). The OHT toolsuite has such a library, as

has MDHT, the instance editor, Everest, .. and most applications that are serious about

supporting v3. Yet all these groups and vendors have had to reinvent a data types library. That

is nonsensical. IMHO we'll need to invest some money in creating a re-usable library in c#/Java

to support data types R1/R2. One could probably be created by stripping parts from the existing

libraries - and adding new stuff.

THU Q3 (13:45-15:00) Crescent Technical med.gif

  1. Administrative agenda items
    • Prepare agenda for future meetings
    • Request for a joint meeting by Tooling
      • Andy (Tooling) As part of Tooling's mandate to extend to 'user tools' , we would like to

schedule a joint session for San Antonio (we host?). We see RIMBAA architects and developers as

users/implementer's of the standards and would like to discuss requirements, how to align, and

next steps.

      • We had discussed this quarter as in addition to Tooling's regular Tues Q1,Q2; Thurs Q1, Q2.

Thursday Q3 & Q4 is the Tooling Tutorial, so we tend to block that time out. Other than that we

are open to suggestions.

  1. Code generation based on "green" HL7 v3 models (Robert Worden, Phil Scott, 45 minutes)
    • A by-product of defining a Green CDA or Green RMIM with the Open Mapping tools is the creation

of a simplified class model with precise mappings to a RIM-based model. The simplified class

model, expressed in EMF Ecore, can be used for model-based application development, model-based

query, or for mapping to other XML dialects to generate transforms. This will be illustrated by

examples: Green CDA, Creen C32 with a bridge from MDHT models, Green Lab model.

  1. Possible creation of a 'reference implementation'
    • Discussion of whether or not we want to have/create one
  2. The architecture of RIM based persistence
    • Review of issues and summary whitepaper

September 12 (Monday Q3)

Workgroup Date/Time Location Chair/Scribe
RIMBAA WG 2011-09-12,
13:45-15:00		 San Diego CA, US Chair/Scribe: Rene Spronk

Attendance

At Name Affiliation Email Address
X Amnon Shabo IBM, IL shabo@il.ibm.com
X Bill Friggle Sanofi Aventis, US william.friggle@sanofi-aventis.com
X Duana Bender Mohawk College, CA duane.bender@mohawkcollege.ca
X Ewout Kramer Furore, NL e.kramer@furore.com
X Gordon Raup Datuit LLC, US graup@datuit.com
X Justin Fyfe Mohawk College, CA justin.fyfe1@mohawkcollege.ca
X Madan Gopal Arizona dept. of Health Services, US madan.gopal@azdhs.gov
X Michael van der Zel Groningen University Hospital,
and Results4Care,

NL||m.van.der.zel@umcg.nl

X Peter Hendler KP, US peter@hendler.net
X Rene Spronk Ringholm, NL rene.spronk@ringholm.com

Minutes

  1. Administrative agenda items (max 30 minutes)
    • Call to order by Rene at 13:55
    • Approval of agenda for the week
      • Approved without changes.
    • Announcements
    • Approval of the minutes of the Orlando WGM (May 2011)
      • MOTION to approve the minutes of the RIMBAA meeting in Orlando, as available on the HL7

website

([http://www.hl7.org/documentcenter/public/wg/java/minutes/RIMBAA_May2011_Minutes_Orlando.zip

http://www.hl7.org/documentcenter/public/wg/java/minutes/RIMBAA_May2011_Minutes_Orlando.zip]).

Peter/Michael, 9-0-1 (Y-N-Abst)

    • Annual (brief) review of the RIMBAA Mission and Charter
      • Reviewed, no changes
    • Annual (brief) review of the RIMBAA SWOT
      • Add to 'weaknesses' - most implementers are not authors, which makes it hard to create

whitepapers

project.

      • 3-year plan: may wish to add the creation of a 'reference implementation'. Add issue to the

agenda of our Thursday Q3 meeting

      • Whitepapers: Michael offers to write one on the topic of 'using RIMBAA in clinical research'.
    • Brief update on the Fresh Look activities by Michael van der Zel
      • No relevant activities for RIMBAA, focus is on clinical models and modelling.
  2. Everest: a MIF based code generator for .net (Justin Fyfe, Mohawk College, CA, see

[http://www.hl7.org/documentcenter/public/wg/java/20110912%20everest%20-%20HL7%20-%20RIMBAA.pptx

http://www.hl7.org/documentcenter/public/wg/java/20110912%20everest%20-%20HL7%20-%20RIMBAA.pptx]

for his slides)

code/class generator for .net. In 2011 it was announced that the toolkit now offerst support for

MIFs published in universal-realm normative editions, and the roadmap envisions a Java version

as well. Everest has been presented before during a RIMBAA meeting, see [[RIMBAA: Marc-HI

Everest]].

    • Justin introduces the toolkit, its architecture
    • He also shows some of the details of the data type library (See his blogposts:

Everest 1.0 Data Type Operations, [http://blog.marc-

hi.ca/blog/?p=103 IVL and PIVL]) and how one could re-use the data type libraries as contained

in Everest / jEverest (for example, see this blogpost: [http://www.mgrid.net/blogs/connect-to-

mgrid-using-dot-net Connect to MGRID using Everest]).

    • .net/Java platform. maintain 2 codebasis, no automated translation. use features of the

platform.

    • jEverest - Java version of Everest.
    • 'from MIF to code' slide: GPMR general purpose MIf reformatter. COR = OO representation of the

model. Run an optimizer,

    • detect re-usable bits in the models.
    • COR renderer into other formats e.g. C#/HTML/Java/JSON
    • Q2 2012 release of Everest 1.0 - jEverest/Everest
  2. Adjourned at 15:15

Meeting Attendance (marked X)

At Name Affiliation Email Address
  Abdul Malik Shakir COH, US ashakir@coh.org
  Adel Ghlamallah CIHI, CA aghlamallah@infoway.ca
  Alan Nicol Informatics, UK alan.nicol@informatics.co.uk
  Alejandro Pica EMA, UK alejandro.pica@ema.europa.eu
  Alexander Henket E-Novation, NL alexander.henket@enovation.nl
  Alex de Jong Siemens, US alex.dejong@siemens.com
  Alex Zupan ItalTBS, IT alex.zupan@italtbs.com
  Ameet Pathak Dana-Farber Cancer Institute, US ameet_pathak@dfci.harvard.edu
  Amnon Shabo IBM, IL shabo@il.ibm.com
  Andrew McIntyre Medical Objects, AU andrew@medical-objects.com.au
  Andy Stechislin GordonPoint, CA andy.stechishin@gmail.com
  Anil Luthra , US aluthra@alfisconsultants.com
  Ann Wrightson NHS Wales, UK ann.wrightson@wales.nhs.uk
  Assaf Halevy DBmotion assaf.halevy@dbmotion.com
  Bill Friggle Sanofi Aventis, US william.friggle@sanofi-aventis.com
  Brian Pech KP, US brian.pech@kp.org
  Bruce McKinnon JassCo, CA bruce.mckinnon@jassco.ca
  Charlie McCay Ramsey, UK charlie@ramseysystems.com
  Chirag Bhatt FEI Systems, US chirag.bhatt@feisystems.com
  Chris Melo Philips, US chris.melo@philips.com
  Chris Winters Vocollect Healthcare Systems, Inc.,

US||cwinters@healthcare.vocollect.com

  Dale Nelson , US dale.nelson@squaretrends.com
  Dan Kokotov 5AM Solutions, US dkokotov@5amsolutions.com
  Dave Barnet NHS, UK david.barnet@nhs.net
  David Rowed Ocean Informatics, AU david.rowed@oceaninformatics.com
  Dave Shaver Corepoint health, US dave.shaver@corepointhealth.com
  Diane Gutiw SAIC, US gutiwd@saic.com
  Duana Bender Mohawk College, CA duane.bender@mohawkcollege.ca
  Ed Larsen Larsen Inc., US e.laresen@ix.netcom.com
  Ernst de Bel UMCN, NL e.debel@ic.umcn.nl
  Ewout Kramer Furore, NL e.kramer@furore.com
  Gavin Morris Kestral, AU gavinm@kestral.com.au
  Geoffry Roberts Blue Thread LLC, US geoffry.roberts@gmail.com
  George de la Torre Tufts Health, US delatorre.george@gmail.com
  Gordon Raup Datuit LLC, US graup@datuit.com
  Grahame Grieve AU grahameg@gmail.com
  Heath Frankel Ocean Informatics, AU heath.frankel@oceaninformatics.com
  Hugh Glover BlueWave Informatics, UK hugh_glover@bluewaveinformatics.co.uk
  Hugh Leslie Ocean Informatics, AU hugh.leslie@oceaninformatics.com
  Ian Bull ACT health, AU ian.bull@act.gov.au
  Ilia Fortunov Microsoft, US iliaf@microsoft.com
  Jane Curry HIS inc, CA JaneCurry@healthinfostrategies.com
  Jean Henri Duteau GPI, CA jean.duteau@gpinformatics.com
  John Finbraaten Marshfield Clinic, US finbraaten.john@marshfieldclinic.org
  John Harvey Iatric, US john.harvey@iatric.com
  John Koisch Guidewire Architecture, CA jkoisch@guidewirearchitecture.com
  John Timm IBM, US johntimm@us.ibm.com
  John Ulmer ??, US johnu@clemson.edu
  Justin Fyfe Mohawk College, CA justin.fyfe1@mohawkcollege.ca
  Kai Heitmann Heitmann Consulting, DE hl7@kheitmann.de
  Kenneth Salyards SAMSHA, US kenneth.salyards@samsha.hhs.gov
  Kenneth Weng CareFx, US kweng@carefx.com
  Lee Coller Oracle, US lee.coller@oracle.com
  Linda Birn MOH Holdings, SG linda.birn@mohh.com.sg
  Lyssa Neel Infoway, CA pneel@infoway.ca
  Lorraine Constable CA lorraine@constable.ca
  Madan Gopal Arizona dept. of Health Services, US madan.gopal@azdhs.gov
  Marilyn Maguire Fuji Med, US marilyn.maguire@fujimed.com
  Mario Roy Iatric, US mario.roy@iatric.com
  Mark Bevivino Iatric, US markb@iatric.com
  Mark Shafarman Shafarman Consulting, US mark.shafarman@earthlink.net
  Mark Tucker Regenstrief, US mtucker@regenstrief.org
  Massimo Frossi Ital TBS, IT massimo.frossi@italtbs.com
  Michael van der Zel Groningen University Hospital,
and Results4Care,

NL||m.van.der.zel@umcg.nl

  Mike Rossman KP, US michael.k.rossman@kp.org
  Muhammad Afzal SEECS, PK muhammad.afzal@seecs.edu.pk
  Nick Radov Axolotl, US nradov@axolotl.com
  Patrick Loyd GPI, CA patrick.c.loyd@gmail.com
  Pascal Mattiocco KP, US pmattiocco@yahoo.com
  Paul Boyes Guidewire Architecture, CA pboyes@guidewirearchitecture.com
  Peter Gummer Ocean Informatics, AU peter.gummer@oceaninformatics.com
  Peter Hendler KP, US peter@hendler.net
  Rene Spronk Ringholm, NL rene.spronk@ringholm.com
  Richard Kronstad Carefacts, UK rkronstad@carefacts.com
  Richard Thoreson SAMSHA-CSAT, US richard.thoreson@samsha.hhs.gov
  Rik Smithies NHS, UK rik@nprogram.co.uk
  Robert Worden Open Mapping Software, UK robert@OpenMapSW.com
  Sam Heard Ocean Informatics, AU sam.heard@oceaninformatics.com
  Sean Muir VA, US sean.muir@va.gov
  Scott Parkey Axolotl, US sparkey@axolotl.com
  Stacy Berger COH sberger@coh.org
  Steven Royce NEHTA, AU stephen.royce@nehta.gov.au
  Steve Fine Cerner, US sfine@cerner.com
  Tessa van Stijn Nictiz, NL stijn@nictiz.nl
  Tim Dodd CA tim.dodd@health.gov.sk.ca
  Tod Ryal Cerner, US tryal@cerner.com
  Todd Parnell 5AM Solutions, US tparnell@5amsolutions.com
  Tony Lam MOH Holdings, SG tony.lam@mohh.com.sg
  Vassil Paytchev Epic, US vassil@epic.com
  Yunwei Wang Siemens, US yunwei.wang@siemens.com
  Zhijing Liu Siemens, US zhijing.liu@siemens.com
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