This wiki has undergone a migration to Confluence found Here
<meta name="googlebot" content="noindex">

Difference between revisions of "MnM Minutes WGM 200909"

From HL7Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search
Line 1: Line 1:
[[Category:MnM Minutes]]
==Sunday Q3==
==Sunday Q3==

Revision as of 12:06, 20 May 2010

Sunday Q3


  • Agenda Topics Review
  • Hot Topics Triage


PRESENT: Woody Beeler, Lloyd McKenzie, Grahame Gieve, Rene Spronk, Andy Stechishin, Kathleen Connor, Patrick Loyd, Serafina Versaggi, Dale Nelson, John Roberts, Jean Duteau

  • Set the Agenda
  • Summarized the RIM Ballot comments
  • Summarized the Datatype Ballot comments
  • Sumamrized the Core Principles Ballot comments
  • No Sun Q4 quarter as Russ Hamm will not be present

Monday Q3


  • RIM Ballot Reconciliation


PRESENT: Woody Beeler, Dale Nelson, Andy Stechishin, Peter Hendlev, Ravi Natavagan

  • Line item 5 - May comments accepted are not yet implemented. RN/AS 4-0-0
  • Line 10,11 - Persuasive AS/DN 4-0-0
  • Line 12,13 - Change immutable ñ item was out of scope. NR - DN/AS 4-0-0
  • Line 17 - Formal constraint on moodCode is redundant ñ Persuasive AS/DN 4-0-0
  • Line 18,21,23 - Open issues should be moved to tracker ñ Not Persuasive With Mod AS/RN 4-0-0 - Leave in open issues and MnM will seek a volunteer to add items to tracker.

MOTION: All Affirm (A-Q, A-S, A-T) dispositions as a block, as noted in ballot reconciliation sheet. Line 2,3,4,5,6,11,12,13,16,17 AS/RN 4-0-0

MOTION: Line 22 - NR DN/AS 4-0-0

MOTION: to reopen Line 12 DN/AS 5-0-0

MOTION: Revote Line 12, new verbiage, Not Persuasive LM/AS 5-0-0

MOTION: Apply resolutions already reached to primary dispositions of resolution of duplicates. AS/LM 5-0-0

  • Discussed RIM artifact numbering, for future internal publishing artifacts. RIM 2.29 will be the internal artifact that is RIM R2. We will start new harmonizations with RIM


Monday Q4


  • Core Principles Reconcilliation


PRESENT: Woody Beeler, Grahame Grieve, Dale Nelson, Patrick Loyd, Lyssa Neel, Bernard Jackson, Jean Duteau, Lloyd McKenzie ACTION: Grahame will rewrite 3.2.2 to focus on associations. Refer to vocabulary instead of directly replicating it. WB/LM 7-0-0 - typo "...RIM is always an expressed or applied model."

ACTION: Grahame will re-organize the sections (merge sections 2 and 3) to make the flow better especially as it relates to types, classes, and instances. PL/LM 6-0-0 3.2 - remove the section and add a note that "datatype flavours are applied models" WB/LM 6-0-0

ACTION: Woody will include the current dynamic model (on a no-questions-allowed basis) in Section 6 in order to have formal documentation of current practices. WB/DN 6-0-0

ACTION: Lloyd will include a definition of Focal Class in the Dynamic Model and ensure that is used correctly in other parts of the document. LM/WB 6-0-0

ACTION: Lloyd will read the RCL and identify out-of-date content. In this document, we will include a section that indicates pieces of RCL will be merged at a later date. LM/WB 6-0-0

ACTION: Add a new section (Additional Considerations) and include Association NullFlavours, Update Mode, Accountability GB/JD 6-0-0

ACTION: Add a note that "A DIM is not meant to be a serializable model." GB/JD 6-0-0

Other harmonizations were done as well. GB/PL 6-0-0

Comments by Freida were disposed. GB/DN 5-0-0

Tuesday Q1


  • Hot Topics: Types of II


PRESENT: Grahame Grieve, Dale Nelson, Rik Smithies, Jean Duteau, Lloyd McKenzie, Norman Daoust, Andy Stechishin, Ioana Singureanu

Discussion of II.type

  • Negative ballot comment against Abstract Datatypes asking about II.type.
  • There is no II.type - instead there is an OtherIDs pattern. This pattern is listed on the Wiki and also in the Patient Administration DMIM.
  • We need to document this pattern so that people know what to use. We also need to publicize the OtherIDs pattern. We have a lack of written documentation, i.e. lore.
  • NOTE: Implementers of CDA will be stuck since this pattern does not exist in CDA.
  • Ioana and Lloyd agreed that there needs to be a set of things that facilitator's are made aware.
  • There was a recollection of some previous documentation on this issue.


  • (Grahame) Add this subject to v3 Guide.
  • (Grahame) Add theory of this subject to Core Principles.
  • (Lloyd) Prepare some boilerplate attribute descriptive text about this to provide to the committees.
  • (Grahame) Recommend that SD publish a formal CDA extension.
  • (Ioana) Prepare a QA guidance document, including this subject.
  • (Ioana) More active in pushing hot topic info out to MnM Facilitators. Potentially send out a periodic "News from MnM" newsletter.
  • (Norman) Enhance the current PA DMIM model with information about the pattern. LM/DN 7-0-0

QA Checklist Brainstorming

Tuesday Q2


  • Hot topic: Some properties of a requested-activity that is requested to be performed can't be conveyed.
  • Further discussion on other MnM issues: Additional negative RIM comment from May 2009.


PRESENT: Woody Beeler, Dale Nelson, Rene Sprong, Patrick Loyd, Nick Radov, Brian Pech, Rik Smithies

ACTION: Discussed proposed solution involving new RIM Attribute to distinguish between abstractions (DEF, CRT) and the normal mood such as the ActMoodCompletionTrack fulfillment life cycle with different rules for the abstraction classes, specifically that all attributes and associations become part of the definition or criterion, and that Woody Beeler will try to present this concept in Q3 which is aimed at the same topic, with the goal to advance this to harmonization in Nov. 2009.

ACTION: RIM R2 Ballot reconcilliation. 1) How to deal with acknowledgements of authors in ballot material? RSpronk/RSmithiesS 5-0-0 Persuasive w/ mod to Gunter Schadows negative comment r.e. RIM May 2009 -Add an acknowledgement paragraph in the preface that includes Shakir, Curry, Case, Schadow.

Tuesday Q3


  • Hot topics: Requests vs. Requested, CRT & DEF mood


See wiki: Act_in_DEF_Mood#Recommendations

OUTCOME: We will add RQO.CRT, INT.CRT, GOL.CRT, RSK.CRT. Will add an open issue to DEF on the grounds that it may be equivalent to EVN.CRT. Will also add Participation.criterionInd and an Act.recordStatusCode

MOTION: Austin/Gunther (8/2/2): Create a harmonization proposal (discussed on the wiki) to be drafted by Woody & Austin reflecting the above

  • Objectors preferred to use a grouping Act rather than a criterionInd to manage the “author of criterion vs. criteria author”

Tuesday Q4


  • Core Principles Reconcilliation


Wednesday Q1,Q2 - Joint with Vocabulary


  • Core Principles Reconcilliation


See Vocabulary Minutes

Wednesday Q3,Q4 - Joint with InM,SOA


  • SAEAF Behavorial Framework


See InM/SOA Minutes

Thursday Evening -- Facilitators' Roundtable


  • Future Harmonization Dates and Plans
  • Review Methodology, Vocabulary, Modeling Issues during WGM
  • Summary of M&M Activities


PRESENT: Woody (Chair), Rene(RIMBAA/InM), Ted(Vocab), Lloyd(MnM), Norm (PA), Craig (CDS), Dale (ITS), Bob (SD), Andy (Pub), Austin (PHER/OO), Charlie (CS), Jean (Pharmacy), Hugh(Medication), Gunther (OO/CPM), AMS (RCRIM/CSC), Grahame (MnM/SD), Julie (PatSafety)


  • v2 NullFlavour proposal has been dropped
  • deblue blue classes - not the LanguageCommunication nor the Query classes
    • harmonization proposal will be forthcoming


  • joint project proposal to define a SOA service for registries
  • there a bunch of CMETs that PA provides - they want to ensure that the CMETs they have fit committee's requirements
  • RIM change - effectiveTime from IVL<TS> to QSET<TS>


  • took on SAEAF governance
  • will be talking with committees to determine how to "make it better"
  • there is no normative schemas but there are normative specifications
  • they would welcome proposals for a schema specification proposal
  • would welcome a work item to put together a list of QA measures for schemas
    • this is a matter of importance to develop a robust defect reporting scheme


  • new co-chair (Grahame)
  • eMeasures balloted the RIM turned into an RMIM
  • had a discussion about the scope of the right side of the CDA R3


  • reengineering parts of the Harm process and how it works
  • produce Table396 out of the OID registry
  • CTS II specs - there will be a little bit of work but it will be brought to the TSC in November
  • work on Core Principles document
  • work will begin on the Glossary to make it consistent and be able to leverage international work
  • proposal for a joint project to develop a conformance document on the representation of vocabulary
  • also looking at conformance for post-coordination in conjunction with IHTSDO


  • dealing with SAEAF project for Composite Order
  • dealing with SD on the model consistency issues between CDA R3 and Order


  • problems with the understanding of patterns
  • there will be hot topic on the creation and use of patterns in our methodology
  • contextConduction needs to be sorted out


  • where should DetectedIssue reside? Patient Care


  • moving all of our topics to normative
  • Drug Knowledgebase (Jan 2010), Pharmacy CMETs (May 2010), Medication Dispense (May 2010), Patient-Specific Queries (May 2010)
  • Medication CMETs - will be harmonized with CPM


  • harmonization proposals will be made so that it will pass ballot in Jan 2010


  • harmonization proposals for datatypes
  • DTypes R3 will be started - GForge will be created
  • existing ballot comments that were out of scope - will be sent to the commenters to be submitted as R3
  • DTypes R2 schemas will be released next week


  • Rim 2.27 will be DT R2, Rim 2.26 will be DT R1
  • NHS SMD will be available in December
  • By the end of the next year, we would be fully converted to the new SMD
    • Vocabulary management will follow after
  • Behavioural Framework will follow last
  • Will convert to MIF-based publishing sometime mid-summer
  • NE2010 deadlines
    • reconciliation will be complete by the beginning of January
    • by the end of January WGM, material will be pulled if not complete

Shadow relationships

  • with relationship clones, it appears that the target is associated with two sources. But since it is not traversable, this is not actually true.
  • rules were added to clarify the use of shadows in models


  • November 18-20th in San Francisco
  • For 2010, harmonization will be 3 weeks before ballot opening

Friday Q1


  • Discuss MnM Mission and Charter statement
  • Set Fall Agenda


PRESENT: Woody Beelers, Dale Nelson, Rene Spronk, Narciso Albarracin, Jim Carlson, Andy Stechishin, Lloyd McKenzie, Grahame Grieve

Updated MnM Mission and Charter statement.

MOTION: AS/DN 6-0-0 MnM will adopt changes and forward to TSC.

Review SWOT. Woody asserts the pdf has not changed since 2008, we agree it still is representative.

Strategic Plan updates:

  • Add project for completeing DT R2 and show it as finished.
  • Add project for Data Types R3 now, to collect comments, but will not bring forward until adequate requirements are collected. 2010 requirements, 2011 Prep and ballot.
  • Extend Core Principles into 2010 (2 cycles)
  • Integrate Core Principles with EAF handbook.
  • Create a Static Model QA checklist.
  • Support of HDF with EAF documentation.
  • Add CMET activity for 3rd trimester

MOTION: GG/AS 7-0-0 MnM to accept above list.

Updated schedule for Phoenix. Woody will coordinate with Jean Duteau and coordinate with Lillian.