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|colspan="2"| Hausam Consulting LLC
|colspan="2"| Hausam Consulting LLC
| || Laura Heermann-Langford
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|colspan="2"| Intermountain Healthcare
|colspan="2"| Intermountain Healthcare

Revision as of 22:33, 30 November 2017

Meeting Information

Patient Care FHIR Resources Conference Call

Location: Conference Call
Phone Number: +1 770-657-9270
Participant Passcode: 943377

Date: 2017-11-30
Time: 5-6:30pm ET
Facilitator Michelle M Miller Note taker(s) Michelle M Miller
Attendee Name Affiliation

X Elaine Ayres NIH/Department of Clinical Research Informatics
Dave Carlson VA
X Stephen Chu The Australian Digital Health Agency (ADHA)
Evelyn Gallego EMI Advisors LLC
X Eric Haas Health eData Inc
X Rob Hausam Hausam Consulting LLC
X Laura Heermann-Langford Intermountain Healthcare
X Emma Jones Allscripts
Russ Leftwich InterSystems
X Tony Little Optum 360
Jay Lyle Ockham Information Services LLC, VA
Russell McDonell Telstra Health
Lloyd McKenzie Gevity (HL7 Canada)
Larry McKnight Cerner
X Michelle M Miller Cerner
Lisa Nelson Life Over Time Solutions
Viet Nguyen Lockheed Martin, Systems Made Simple
M'Lynda Owens Cognosante
Mike Padula The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia
Craig Parker Intermountain Healthcare
Joe Quinn Optum
Simon Sum Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
Iona Thraen Dept of Veterans Affairs
Serafina Versaggi Dept of Veterans Affairs
X Danielle Friend Epic
X Jared Moening Epic
X Brett Marquard
X Matt ONC
Quorum Requirements Met: yes


Agenda Topics

  1. Agenda review
  2. Approve previous meeting minutes 2017-11-09_Patient_Care_FHIR_Call
    • Motion: Stephen/Rob
  3. Clinical Note
  4. Prior Action Item Follow-up
  5. gForge change request

Supporting Information


Clinical Note


Structured data entry might differ from the resulting note structure

We need to define what unstructured means (e.g. are there sections in the note?)

  • EHRs have historical notes as well that may not be as structured as they are today
  • Subject, encounter, could be structurally entered, but the content of the note is text


  • Is the note always associated with an encounter? Yes (from Epic)
  • What does Epic call it? Unified Clinical Notes (treat ambulatory and transcription notes similarly)
  • Clinical Notes are separate from billing notes.
  • Typically procedure notes are considered clinical notes.


  • Can attach comments to one or multiple results.
  • Inpatient does tie notes to an encounter or episode of care.
  • Ambulatory systems can write a consultation or referral letter.

Comments or annotations are not discoverable on their own. Comments or annotations are discovered as part of a medication, procedure, observation.

Notes can be discovered on their own and the note generally summarizes structured data.

Which resource?

  • Eric and Rob agree NO observation because the note is more like an impression

Prior Action Item Follow-up


  • QA 4a. Condition.category is CodeableConcept with FHIR-defined value set - related to past GF#11091 -- Rob H. provided an update -- this is still an open question with next step to talk to Grahame and Ted.
  • revisit GF#13026 Condition.clinicalStatus -- Rob will consult with SNOMED and Stephen's PPT is attached to the tracker

High Priority Resources (AlleryIntolerance, Condition, Procedure)

  • FHIR Admin FHIR_Ballot_Prep
    • QA guidelines have changed: FHIR_Conformance_QA_Criteria
    • No PC resources are currently targeted for normative, but we can still evaluate
      • AllergyIntolerance - questions about reaction/AdverseEvent - is this just writing down boundaries?
      • Condition - questions about health concern/linking - need Connectathon planned around concern management, need use cases (from domain analysis) and scenarios to test and recruit implementers to participate
      • Procedure - questions about splitting Procedure (performed) vs ProcedureStatement (history/ patient stated) - need to draft resources as a starting point and sync with Russ on whether we need a more generic patient activity statement resource
        • Procedure statement is a good idea. Need to broaden the concepts to other activities. Idea is to have activity statement and then profile it specific to procedure. A patient statement about their exercise or nutritional intake or their ADLs, these are different
        • Who are the actors that would use this - patient statement and carer statement but can be an activity statement that a provider can use as secondary information. Scope includes provider use as well.
        • PMH - where it should be possible do distinguish surgical or diagnostic procedure from when the patient reported the procedure. Post surgery, the surgeon will make an interventional procedure report. This is different. FHIR has a procedure report. OO part would be the diagnostic report (report of findings) and the report that is interventional - these are two different reports. How does FHIR separate the two. And how does FHIR handle the real world where these are combined? Ultrasound guided biopsy would be a diagnostic report with findings (description of the procedure and description of findings).
        • There is an extension that adds the types of terms that you would see on the procedure.
        • Might be a more general solution but it's not settled.
        • Standard operative report has a description of the procedure and a section that deals with findings.

gForge Change Requests (Backlog)

Workflow Alignment

  • GF#14064 Review Request pattern alignment for CommunicationRequest and CarePlan


  • GF#13936 CommunicationRequest - intent value set (Ravi Kuchi)
  • GF#13979 QA 4a: Communication.topic needs binding to a value set (Michelle Miller)

CarePlan/Goal backlog

  • GF#13903 CarePlan should allow tracking of past activities (i.e. past interventions) (Rick Geimer)


  • GF#13302 Vocabulary issues with AdverseEvent
  • GF#13698 AdverseEvent.suspectedEntity.instance should allow CodeableConcept
  • GF#11021 Increase cardinality of substance and make certainty relation to substance, not reaction - 2016-09 core #40
  • GF#13892 Need guidance on overlap of AdverseEvent.event.text and AdverseEvent.description (Lloyd McKenzie)
  • GF#13893 Correction to AdverseEvent.subject definition (Lloyd McKenzie)
  • GF#13894 AdverseEvent.eventParticipant needs work (Lloyd McKenzie)


  • GF#12509 CareTeam participant (Michelle Miller)


  • GF#12673 How to handle HCT/TP
  • GF#12993 Please Create a NonMedicationAdministration object or an Administration object
  • GF#13047 Add DosageInstructions to Procedure


Medium Backlog

  • GF#12633 Split Procedure into Procedure and ProcedureStatement (Lloyd McKenzie)
  • GF#10028 Careplan: Provide ability to specify patient and/or provider preferences (Emma Jones)
    • meet need with a profile for preference on the observation resource. Requirements are a preference category (nutrition, medication, care), the preference priority (high/medium/delayed from C-CDA) and with elements of expressor and recorder.
    • This profile would not be developed for this release cycle
  • GF#13140 logical definition of care-plan-category value set may require realignment with SCT changes (Matthew Cordell)

Low Backlog

  • GF#10635 QA 5a: Resource references exist in both directions for Condition and ClinicalImpression (Michelle Miller)
    • ClinicalImpression is not mature enough to resolve this issue. Ask MnM for an exemption on the QA checklist (re: Condition having a circular reference with ClinicalImpression)
    • Add note: "A known issue exists with circular references between Condition and ClinicalImpression, which is due to the low maturity level of ClinicalImpression. The Patient Care work group intends to address this issue when ClinicalImpression is considered substantially complete and ready for implementation"
  • GF#11173 CarePlan needs support for reviews - 2016-09 core #327 (Stephen Chu)
    • Tracking of reviews and plans for reviews is something that applies to many resources, not just CarePlan (e.g. protocols, standing orders, long term care admissions, etc.). This is something probably best handled by "Task" but will require a fair bit of analysis and discussion with other work groups to agree on approach. Defer to R4. Consider transfer to OO who owns Task


Adjourned at <hh:mm am/pm> <timezone>.

Meeting Outcomes

Next Meeting/Preliminary Agenda Items
  1. Agenda review
  2. Approve previous meeting minutes
    • Motion: <moved>/<seconded> Abstain - <#>, Negative - <#>, Approve - <#>
  3. gForge change request

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