2017-01-17 PA WGM Minutes
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Patient Administration Work Group Meeting - Tuesday September 17, 2017
Tuesday Q1
| HL7 Patient Administration Meeting Minutes Location: Hyatt Regency San Antonio, Directors Conference Room |
Date: 2017-09-17 Time: Tuesday Q1 | ||
| Facilitator | Line Saele | Scribe | Alexander de Leon |
| Attendee | Name | Affiliation | |
| X | Line Saele | Helse Vest IKT Norway | |
| X | Brian Postlethwaite | HealthConnex, Australia | |
| X | Alex de Leon | Kaiser Permanente, USA | |
| X | |||
| Quorum Requirements Met (Chair + 2 members): Yes | |||
Agenda
Agenda Topics
Supporting Documents
Minutes
Minutes/Conclusions Reached:
Introductions
The WG began by reviewing the email sent out by Lloyd McKenzie regarding FHIR deliverable dates and timelines.
Ewout representing the FMG reviewed where we are today.
STU3 to Release 4. STU3 publicatino End of march, or april. Aiming for ballot in may session in 2018, with publication in September or October. Will contain normative and draft content. It will be challenting to isolate the items that are normative versus the draft. For instance, we can’t have a situation where, Patient is normative, for instance, but a datatype used by Patient is not normative.
The WG continued to review the email. Tracker issues clean-up.
(doc) Lloyd FHIR countdown email
(doc) FHIR Tracker Issues
(doc) Summary
Ewout asked about subtative changes. The only one the WG seems to have is the decision to make the Practitioner role its own resource, as it currently is a sub resource under Practitioner.
The WG did scan the deferred ballots for urgent low/hanging fruit, and determined that there were not many. However, it does seem possible.
The WG considered the following resources as good candidates for going normative in 2018:
- Paractitioner 3
- PracitionerRole 3
- Patient 3
- RelatedPerson 3
- Person
The WG discussed the patient resource and the fact that it could probably move to 5 if the veterinary use case can be moved to an extension.
Scheduling feedback is needed from Norway (DIPS?).
Appointment 4?
EpisodeOfCare 1
HealthcareService 1
Irma noted that with 20 minutes left, perhaps we should handle some of items to cover.
- 10018 - Use v2/v3 aligned vocab for [Patient.]gender
Yesterday I was in a discussion with CGIT. Vocab came up (Frank/Ioana) and then there was Ewout on the one side who claimed that vocab in FHIR is harmonized with v2/v3, but then Frank/Ioana brought up the valid point that a number of PA resources at least have severe deviations still:
RelatedPerson.gender (Required)
Practitioner.gender (Required)
Person.gender (Required)
FamilyMemberHistory.gender (Required)
StructureDefinition FamilyMemberHistory-Genetic: FamilyMemberHistory.gender ((Required))
Patient.gender (Required)
Patient.contact.gender (Required)
What's keeping us from alignment there? Could we silence that discussion that keeps coming up with the vocab people? It also leads to real world headache in mixed environments where people need to map because of this.
Suggest to change the binding to https://hl7-fhir.github.io/v3/AdministrativeGender/vs.html
The WG discussed, this and the fact that this keeps coming up. D
A motion was made by Irma to leave the FHIR code with the following values, seconded by Line to disposition this as non-persuasive and retain the following values for this element:
- male
- female
- other
- unknown
Discussion: None
Vote: 13/1/0
To take advantage of Ewout’s presence, 2 items were discussed. Practitioner/practitioner role usages… were should it be stored. Leaning toward storing it outside of the specification, with references within the spec.
There is an idea of a new resource: Org to Org resource – Affiliation. An alternative is to use the Group resource and include a reference to the Organization resource. Ewout noted that a group is set of things for a particular purpose which does not seem to be the same thing. In addition, the Group seems to be a set that is acted upon as a group.
Meeting Outcomes
Actions (Include Owner, Action Item, and due date)
Owner: , Due: |
Next Meeting/Preliminary Agenda Items
|
Tuesday Q2
| HL7 Patient Administration Meeting Minutes Location: Hyatt Regency San Antonio, Directors Conference Room |
Date: 2017-09-17 Time: Tuesday Q2 | ||
| Facilitator | Line Saele | Scribe | Alex de Leon |
| Attendee | Name | Affiliation | |
| X | Line Saele | Helse Vest IKT Norway | |
| X | Brian Postlethwaite | HealthConnex, Australia | |
| X | Alex de Leon | Kaiser Permanente, USA | |
| Quorum Requirements Met (Chair + 2 members): Yes | |||
Agenda
Agenda Topics
Supporting Documents
Minutes
Minutes/Conclusions Reached:
The WG started with the Account/BillableItem resources.
The discussion was around whether these would be resources owned by PA or FM. The idea is that the ownership will be FM eventually, but since this is an overlap, it’s valid that PA is working on this.
Simone showed Claim resource. Which contains items, but today there is no way to depict where the items come from.
The WG discussed the name of the resource that would capture the items that may (may not) end up being billed or on a claim. After discussions areound name of BillableItem, ClaimModel, it was decided that the best name would be ChargeItem.
Simone noted that even if we isolate the various charge items, there still should be a sort of envelope to give the items context for usage (e.g. for claims, billable use, etc.).
The WG discussed the various usage of the elements in the ClaimModel shown by Simone. Most notably:
- patient
- encounter
- account
- requestedService
- providedService
- performedBy
- Item
The WG discussed the encounter which references Encounter or EpisodeOfCare. There was a suggestion to separate these into individual elements. This seemed useful for Denmark and for use cases in the room.
There was a suggestion to collapse the two models for potential resources: ClaimItemModel (charge item) and ClaimModel
After looking at some of the elements of the proposed claim resource, it seems that many of the elements were realm specific, thereby potential for moving into extensions. The WG did also note that some elements were not only realm specific but also specialtly specific. At this point the WG considered whether the Claim.item in the proposed Claim resource can’t cover all, otherwise it will be so complex as to be unusable.
The WG felt comfortable with collapsing the two proposed resources noted above and adding diagnosis and modifier and naming it ChargeItem. Whether this should replace the Claim.item element is something that the WG decided to discuss at a later time.
Joint meeting Coverage, Account and this resource BillableItem (now ChargeItem).
The WG decided to collapse the two resources and discusw with financial management here at the WGM. After this, workgroup meeting, the discussion will be kicked off in Zulip to determine what elements should be in the core and what elements should be in the standard extensions.
Meeting Outcomes
Actions (Include Owner, Action Item, and due date)
|
Next Meeting/Preliminary Agenda Items
|
Tuesday Q3
| HL7 Patient Administration Meeting Minutes Location: Hyatt Regency San Antonio, Directors Conference Room |
Date: 2017-09-17 Time: Tuesday Q3 | ||
| Facilitator | Line Saele | Scribe | Alex de Leon |
| Attendee | Name | Affiliation | |
| X | Line Saele | Helse Vest IKT Norway | |
| X | Brian Postlethwaite | HealthConnex, Australia | |
| X | Alex de Leon | Kaiser Permanente, USA | |
| Quorum Requirements Met (Chair + 2 members): Yes/No | |||
Agenda
Agenda Topics
Supporting Documents
Minutes
Minutes/Conclusions Reached:
Joint with SOA. SOA hosting.
Meeting Outcomes
Actions (Include Owner, Action Item, and due date)
|
Next Meeting/Preliminary Agenda Items
|
Tuesday Q4
| HL7 Patient Administration Meeting Minutes Location: Hyatt Regency San Antonio, Directors Conference Room |
Date: 2017-09-17 Time: Tuesday Q4 | ||
| Facilitator | Line Saele | Scribe | Alex de Leon |
| Attendee | Name | Affiliation | |
| X | Line Saele | Helse Vest IKT Norway | |
| X | Brian Postlethwaite | HealthConnex, Australia | |
| X | Alex de Leon | Kaiser Permanente, USA | |
| Quorum Requirements Met (Chair + 3 members): Yes | |||
Agenda
Agenda Topics
- 3 Year Work Plan – FHIR
Supporting Documents
Minutes
Minutes/Conclusions Reached:
Action: Update attendees for Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday All quarters.
Motion to approve the minutes by Brian. Drew seconds
Discussion: None
Vote: 7/0/1
The WG continued with the draft agenda for May WGM 2017. From the last quarter, we understand that we still will want a joint sesson with SOA but PA will host at that time.
In addition, Alex noted that the status of the V2.9 is that it will go through a second ballot round, but it is unclear which cycle now. Therefore V2 work will be kept on the agenda
Action: Line to request rooms for next meeting.
Action: Discuss with Publishing regarding the “replacement” of the ROL segment with the PRT segment.
Action: Discuss addition of IAM segment as an optional segment where AL1 segments exist in the trigger events. This might mean that the WG would have to consider the deprecation process for the AL1 segment.
Meeting Outcomes
| Actions (Include Owner, Action Item, and due date)
|
Next Meeting/Preliminary Agenda Items
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