MnM Minutes CC 20100624
Contents
- 1 M&M Ballot Reconciliation Conf. Call 4:00 PM Eastern (Date above)
- 2 NO QUORUM ON JUNE 17 CALL - SHAME!
- 3 Agenda - Core Principles Reconciliation
- 3.1 Working document
- 3.2 Comment Grouping "GWB0 GWB1* Neg"
- 3.3 Comment Grouping "GWB0 GWB1 A-*"
- 3.4 Comment Grouping "GWB2.1 GWB2.3 GWB2.3.1"
- 3.4.1 Item 1 3 4 and 216 (GWB2.1 A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
- 3.4.2 Item 10(GWB2.3) (moved/seconded) vote
- 3.4.3 Item 11 (GWB2.3.1 A-C) (moved/seconded) vote
- 3.4.4 Item 114 (GWB2.3 Neg) (moved/seconded) vote
- 3.4.5 Item 164 (GWB2.3 A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
- 3.4.6 Item 165 (GWB2.3.1 A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
- 3.5 Comment Grouping "GWB2.4 GWB2.4.2 GWB2.4.3 Neg*"
- 3.5.1 Item 8 (GWB2.4 Neg-Mi) (moved/seconded) vote
- 3.5.2 Item 13 (GWB2.4.2 Neg-Mi) (moved/seconded) vote
- 3.5.3 Item 14 (GWB2.4.3 Neg-Mi) (moved/seconded) vote
- 3.5.4 Item 15 (GWB2.4.3 Neg-Mi) (moved/seconded) vote
- 3.5.5 Item 16 (GWB2.4.2 Neg-Mi) (moved/seconded) vote
- 3.5.6 Item 115 (GWB2.4 Neg-Mj) (moved/seconded) vote
- 3.5.7 Item 250 (GWB2.4.2) (moved/seconded) vote
- 3.6 Comment Grouping ""GWB2.4 GWB2.4.1 GWB2.4.2 GWB2.4.3 GWB2.5 A-*"
- 3.6.1 Item 12(GWB2.4 A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
- 3.6.2 Item 128 (GWB2.4.1 A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
- 3.6.3 Item 166, 168 & 249 (GWB2.4.1 & 2.4.3 A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
- 3.6.4 Item 167 (GWB2.4.2 A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
- 3.6.5 Item 169 (GWB2.4.3 A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
- 3.6.6 Item 251(GWB2.5) (moved/seconded) vote
- 3.7 Adjournment
M&M Ballot Reconciliation Conf. Call 4:00 PM Eastern (Date above)
Logistics
Join GoToMeeting at
- https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/701832453
- Meeting ID: 701-832-453
NO QUORUM ON JUNE 17 CALL - SHAME!
Therefore that entire agenda is moved to here.
Agenda - Core Principles Reconciliation
Working document
The working document is the reconciliation spreadsheet posted on HL7 Ballot Desktop. Items are collected by the entries on the "Comment Grouping" column.
The initial version of this agenda includes all line items assigned to GWB. I do not expect we will complete it in one call (although would be sweet indeed), but this allows us to proceed in an orderly fashion through the spread sheet, and stop when we must.
Note that the headings of each of the following groupings should be used to "filter" (select) the relevant entries in the Comment Grouping column (N) of the spreadsheet. If that selection is made, the sheet will display only the entries shown in that agenda section.
Comment Grouping "GWB0 GWB1* Neg"
Three items assigned to MnM that had Negative votes and were about the whole document (GWB0) or about section 1.
Item 2 (GWB Neg) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Will also review the reconcilation from 2009Sep.
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 6 (GWB 1.1 Neg) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
Based on several comments in this area, propose to change after first para and Bullet list of 1.1 (which starts "Within HL7 Version 3, the specifications...") to read:
The essential feature of Hl7 Version 3 is that its specifications (standards) SHALL be based on a set of common models, and that these models will be based on the object modeling facilities of the Unified Modeling Language (UML). The ISO/IEC 19501 standard (UML 1.4.2) further classifies the necessary models as: "[The UML Semantics] section specifies semantics for structural and behavioral object models. Structural models (also known as static models) emphasize the structure of objects in a system, including their classes, interfaces, attributes and relations. Behavioral models (also known as dynamic models) emphasize the behavior of objects in a system, including their methods, interactions, collaborations, and state histories."
In HL7 V3, the "structural models are based on .... [from before]
[First Bullet] HL7 Reference Information Model (RIM) is a "class diagram" of the information that must be communicated in support of health care. The RIM uses an abstract representation that can be readily extended through the additions to model-controlling terminologies. The class attributes in the RIM are "typed" by the HL7 Abstract Data Types.
Note: In ISO/IEC 19501: "Class diagrams show the static structure of the model, in particular, the things that exist (such as classes and types), their internal structure, and their relationships to other things."
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 244 (GWB1 Neg) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "not yet determined"
DISPOSITION-COMMENT
Discussion:
Voters comment is:
1) Section 1 should contain specific “advice to model designers” concerning the need for positive efforts at international consultation within the organization to ensure that models intended to be Universal in scope have not inadvertently been over-specific in matters (such as terminology usage, and models of privacy & consent) that are, in fact, subject to national or other jurisdictional policies that are outside the control of HL7 International and its Affiliates.
Comment Grouping "GWB0 GWB1 A-*"
Seven items assigned to MnM that had non-Negative, A-* votes and were about the whole document (GWB0) or about section 1.
Item 126 (GWB0 A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Will scan whole document once again.
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 130 (GWB1 A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Not Persuasive"
I would have thought that the definition of "funtional interoperability" in the preceding paragraph, and the availability of Web services, XML encoding, transport protocols of endless variety, security tools, etc. would have been clear support for this statement. This statement is almost self-evident.
What more do you wish said??
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 131 (GWB1.1 ??) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
See resolution for Item 6
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 162, 163, 215 (GWB1.1 A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Will correct it
Item 292 (GWB0 A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Will do it.
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Comment Grouping "GWB2.1 GWB2.3 GWB2.3.1"
Seven items assigned to MnM that had Neg or non-Negative, A-* votes and were about the whole document sections 2.1 and 2.3.
Item 1 3 4 and 216 (GWB2.1 A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Will correct
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 10(GWB2.3) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Not persuasive with mod"
Propose to change ALL references to "dynamic model" to "behavioral model" and this will then tie back to the changes in 1.1 as documented in Item 131.
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 11 (GWB2.3.1 A-C) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Will spell out and attempt to define a Glossary for this document.
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 114 (GWB2.3 Neg) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
See items 131, 8, 10
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 164 (GWB2.3 A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Will correct it.
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 165 (GWB2.3.1 A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
Add second sentence.
- Within HL7 Version 3, HL7 prodiuces normative specifications for Implementable Technology Specifications (ITS) that specify how to express an instance of a static model in a particular technology.
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Comment Grouping "GWB2.4 GWB2.4.2 GWB2.4.3 Neg*"
Seven items related to section 2.4 that received Negative votes.
Item 8 (GWB2.4 Neg-Mi) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Not persuasive with mod"
Propose to clarify this by changing "static model" to "structural model" throughout. Then this will tie back to the changes in item 131 for section 1.1
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 13 (GWB2.4.2 Neg-Mi) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Adopt per 1/2010 as:
- "must have single entry points and must have the traversability of each association restricted to a single direction, which makes them serializable … "
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 14 (GWB2.4.3 Neg-Mi) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Will drop first bullet.
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 15 (GWB2.4.3 Neg-Mi) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Second buillet does not seem to distinguish either !!!! Drop it.
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 16 (GWB2.4.2 Neg-Mi) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Recruit L McKenzie to draft text to help understand "incomplete models"
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 115 (GWB2.4 Neg-Mj) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
Put backward reference to RMIMS, DMIMS in here. To help. And review description.
DIM has been addressed in item 127, 128, 129
CIM has been modfied in item 250, 135
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 250 (GWB2.4.2) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Not persuasive with mod"
Suggest a slightly less strict statement as:
- "CIMs are either derived from a DIM directly, or from another CIM. Though technically, a CIM could also be derived from the RIM directly, this is a deprecated practice in order to encourage consistent design."
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Comment Grouping ""GWB2.4 GWB2.4.1 GWB2.4.2 GWB2.4.3 GWB2.5 A-*"
Eight items related to section 2.4 and 2.5 that received Annotation votes.
Item 12(GWB2.4 A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
Change start of paragraph in question to:
- Static models may be considered or represented as a direct statement of constraint, as a class model (UML) or as some form of typing model (i.e. schema). The difference in these three is largely …
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 128 (GWB2.4.1 A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
Actually the DIM IS a constraint on the RIM. The correct expression would appear to be:
- "The first level of constraint is below the rim is a DIM. This model is created by mapping a domain analysis model to the RIM, dta types and HL7 Terminology specifications."
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 166, 168 & 249 (GWB2.4.1 & 2.4.3 A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Will correct it.
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 167 (GWB2.4.2 A-T) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive with mod"
Suggest:
- CIMs are generally focused on a narrower problem domain than is a DIM.
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 169 (GWB2.4.3 A-S) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Persuasive"
Add forward reference to 3.4.1.3 (Applied Models) where 'template' is described
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION
Item 251(GWB2.5) (moved/seconded) vote
Disposition & Disposition Comment - "Not persuasive"
The offending phrase is NOT in the May 2010 ballot which was updated along the lines cited here.
Discussion:
PRELIMINARY-NOTES-AND-DISCUSSION