2018-05-14 PA WGM Minutes
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Patient Administration Work Group Minutes - May 14, 2018
Monday Q1
| HL7 Patient Administration Meeting Minutes Location: Maritime Hotel, Cologne, Salon 20 Fulda |
Date: 2018-01-29 Time: Monday Q1 | ||
| Facilitator | Line Saele | Scribe | Alex de Leon |
| Attendee | Name | Affiliation | |
| X | Irma Jongeneel | HL7 Netherlands | |
| X | Alex de Leon | Kaiser Permanente, USA | |
| X | Line Saele | HL7 Norway | |
| X | Brian Postlethwaite | Telstra Health, Australia | |
| X | Cooper Thompson | EPIC, USA | |
| X | Christian Hay | GS1, Switzerland | |
| X | Bidyut Parruck | Interface ED, USA | |
| X | Simone Heckmann | HL7 Germany | |
| X | Hans Buitendyjk | Cerner, USA | |
| X | Andrew Torres | Cerner, USA | |
| X | Kathy Pickering | Cerner | |
| Quorum Requirements Met (Chair + 2 members): Yes | |||
Agenda
Agenda Topics
Welcome and introductions
Joint meeting with Financial Management - FHIR
- Invoice draft review
- ChargeItemDefintion draft review
- ProductPlan review
- Payment/Adjustment resource?
Supporting Documents
- PA mission & charter
- PA decision making practice
- PA 3-year work plan
- [SWOT
===Minutes===
Plenery
Meeting Outcomes
Actions (Include Owner, Action Item, and due date)
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Next Meeting/Preliminary Agenda Items
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Monday Q2
| HL7 Patient Administration Meeting Minutes Location: Hotel Maritim, Cologne, Salon 20, Fulda |
Date: 2018-05-14 Time: Monday Q2 | ||
| Facilitator | Brian Postlethwaite | Scribe | Alex de Leon |
| Attendee | Name | Affiliation | |
| X | Brian Postlethwaite | Telstra Health, Australia | |
| X | Irma Jongeneel | HL7 Netherlands | |
| X | Alex de Leon | Kaiser Permanente, USA | |
| X | Line Saele | HL7 Norway | |
| X | Cooper Thompson | EPIC, USA | |
| X | Kathy Pickering | Cerner, USA | |
| X | Christian Hay | GS1, Switzerland | |
| X | Simone Heckmann | HL7 Germany | |
| X | Bidyut Parruck | Interface ED, USA | |
| Quorum Requirements Met (Chair +2 members): Yes | |||
Agenda
Agenda Topics
- FHIR New Proposals
- Feedback from Connectathon
Supporting Documents
Minutes
Minutes/Conclusions Reached:
Introductions
Minutes/Conclusions Reached:
Introductions
Joint session with FM.
The WG began with the review of the Invoice resource.
Simone noted that in the last call, the WG was asked to build the invoice looking forward to the approval of this invoice.
Mary Kay noted that there were no quantities involed. Simone explained that the invoice is moer like a summary of the charge items. This would require a bundle to be included to actually use this resource. The operation would be a submit of the invoice that would create the bundle of charge items and paitient information. This would require approval by FM.
http://build.fhir.org/invoice.html
Irma asked if this should follow the workflow pattern.
Irma moves to accept this resource proposal to move forward., Iryna seconds.
Discussion: This is to move forward with the proposal.
Vote (for/against/abstain): 12/0/0
The WG looked generally at the charge item resource to gain approval to move forward with tis as well.
http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=ChargeItemDefinition_FHIR_Resource_Proposal
The pricing details or catalog also services available.
The WG reviewed the elements involved for the context of ChargeItem Definition
Patient, Encounter,
Simone reviewed some of the relevant elements within the proposed ChargeItemDefnition
The Instance element was discussed. FM felt that the reference which currently included Medication, Substance and Device can be expanded.
The joing workgroups had a lively enough discussion on the elements within the ChargeItemDefinition as currently defined to merit moving forward with this proposal.
There were value statements from Germany, Australia, and US for the use of this resource. Each had some use cases which would be supported by this resource.
Action: FM noted that there should be a way to indicate related definition. The Example rule is … there are 10 items that can be charged but only one can be charged. This is one thing that needs to be accounted for.
MaryKay moves to accept the resource proposal for moving forward. Simone seconds.
Discussion: None
Vote: 10/0/1
The WG moved on to review the ProdcutPlan. To be able to have an insurer express their basic product (a set of coverages) and plan where plans are the risk share. For one product, there could be many different ways you can handle risk. This is a structure that allows you to define this.
http://build.fhir.org/productplan
This is not doing billing, it’s doing coverage and risk sharing. Structure of the plan.
Location was supposed to change from 0..1 to 0..*.
The FM work group invited any interested parties to review this.
Brian noted that there is another FM joint session on Thursday Q2.
Meeting Outcomes
Actions (Include Owner, Action Item, and due date)
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Next Meeting/Preliminary Agenda Items
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Monday Q3
| HL7 Patient Administration Meeting Minutes Location: Hilton New Orleans Riverside, Durham Conference Room |
Date: 2018-01-29 Time: Monday Q3 | ||
| Facilitator | Line Saele | Scribe | Alex de Leon |
| Attendee | Name | Affiliation | |
| X | Irma Jongeneel | HL7 Netherlands | |
| X | Line Saele | HL7 Norway | |
| X | Brian Postlethwaite | Telstra Health, Australia | |
| X | Alex de Leon | Kaiser Permanente, USA | |
| X | Toril Reite | HL7 Norway | |
| X | Cooper Thompson | EPIC, USA | |
| X | Oyvind Aassve | HL7 Norway | |
| X | Michelle Miller | Cerner | |
| X | Tricia Chitwood | Cerner, USA | |
| Quorum Requirements Met (Chair + 2 members): Yes | |||
Agenda
Agenda Topics
- FHIR Ballot Reconciliation
Supporting Documents
- 14333 - Provide more clarity between administrativeGender, sex, and gender identity
- 14154 - Searching a patient by Identifier Type
- 14099 - Guidance on how to request a new identifier (e.g. MRN)
- 14341 - Replace "hermaphrodite" with "intersex"
- 14174 - herd should be able to reference the owner
Minutes
Minutes/Conclusions Reached:
Introductions
14866 - Multiple birth order should be a positive integer (not an integer) - 2018-Jan Core #206
The WGreviewed the tacker item and considered this reasonable.
- 14719 - Patient Gender representation is lacking
Existing Wording: In addition, to this gender, other kinds of gender may be represented
Proposed Wording: Add link to US Core Birth Sex extension, and develop guidance for sending Clinical Gender
---
The current description notes "other types of Patient Gender may be represented but gives no guidance" Add link to US birth Sex extension, Add link to Observation resource or create specific profile.
The WG was a little confused about the need for this. After discussion, it seems the submitter wanted hyperlinks to Observation. When reviewing the Patient Gender section, it appears all information is clear there.
In an attempt to clarify, the reference to “Meaningful Use” will be removed. The last sentence in that paragraph will now say “The US realm defines the US specific extension for this for concept,”
An example will be created for the clinical Gender and referenced
The new Gender Identity standard extension will be included in the bulleted items tracker #13843
Moved Brian, second Cooper.
Vote: 7/0/2
- 14754 - Gender can't drive clinical processes if it's administrative - 2018-Jan Core #91
Administrative Gender - the gender that the patient is considered to have for administration and record keeping purposes.
Needed for identification of the individual, in combination with (at least) name and birth date. Gender of individual drives many clinical processes.
The gender might not match the biological sex as determined by genetics, or the individual's preferred identification. Note that for both humans and particularly animals, there are other legitimate possibilities than M and F, though the vast majority of systems and contexts only support M and F. Systems providing decision support or enforcing business rules should ideally do this on the basis of Observations dealing with the specific gender aspect of interest (anatomical, chromosonal, social, etc.) However, because these observations are infrequently recorded, defaulting to the administrative gender is common practice. Where such defaulting occurs, rule enforcement should allow for the variation between administrative and biological, chromosonal and other gender aspects. For example, an alert about a hysterectomy on a male should be handled as a warning or overrideable error, not a "hard" error.
Proposed Wording: Requirements
Needed for identification of the individual, in combination with (at least) name and birth date.
Suggest you remove the statement "Gender of individual drives many clinical processes." since this contradicts your comments on "Administrative Gender", e.g. (The basic gender included in Patient.gender has a limited use, that of the administrative gender: the gender that the patient is considered to have for administration and record keeping purposes.)
To support your statement "Systems providing decision support or enforcing business rules should ideally do this on the basis of Observations dealing with the specific gender aspect of interest (anatomical, chromosomal, social, etc.)." suggest referring to LOINC codes for Sex assigned at birth (768909) since it may be different from the current Administrative Gender. Also suggest adding reference to LOINC code for Gender Identity in this section.
Cooper moves to disposition this persuasive with mod, Brian seconded.
Discussion: None
Vote: 5/1/3
14756# - Provide LOINC code for sex assigned at birth - 2018-Jan Core #93
Submitted by: Freida Hall (Quest Diagnostics)
On behalf of: Freida Hall (freida.x.hall@questdiagnostics.com)
Existing Wording: Tracking a patient's gender presents a number of challenges due to biological variations, differing cultural expectations and legal restrictions, and the availability of various kinds of gender re-assignment. The basic gender included in Patient.gender has a limited use, that of the administrative gender: the gender that the patient is considered to have for administration and record keeping purposes. In addition, to this gender, other kinds of gender may be represented:
•Birth Sex - the sex assigned at birth / on the birth registration. Some countries allow variations such as not yet determined, unknown, or undifferentiated, while others do not. The US realm defines a US Specific extension for this for Meaningful Use
•Clinical Gender - an observation about the patient, typically using the LOINC code 76691-5 ). LOINC also provides a set of possible codes , or SNOMED CT has the descendents of 285116001 : Gender identity finding
Since you provide a LOINC code for Clinical Gender in the 2nd bulleted section, suggest also providing the LOINC code for "Sex assigned at birth" (76689-9) in the 1st bulleted section text description.
Provide LOINC code for sex assigned at birth
Michelle moved seconded by Brian to accept this with additional wording “Alternatively, if you were reepresentint this concept with an observation you could use the LOINC code 76689-9.”
Vote: 8/1/0
- 14099 - Guidance on how to request a new identifier (e.g. MRN)
See https://chat.fhir.org/#narrow/stream/implementers/topic/Create.20Identifier.20(MRN)
Need consistent guidance in the spec on how to request a new identifier be created (e.g. MRN). Brainstorming ranged from:
- An operation
- Use data absent reason extension to convey Identifier.value is "not yet assigned, so please assign it"
- An Identifier.assigner populated without Identifier.value populated
After discussion, An Identifier.assigner populated without Identifier.value populated
To be continued
Meeting Outcomes
Actions (Include Owner, Action Item, and due date)
|
Next Meeting/Preliminary Agenda Items
|
Monday Q4
| HL7 Patient Administration Meeting Minutes Location: Hilton New Orleans Riverside, Durham Conference Room |
Date: 2018-01-29 Time: Monday Q4 | ||
| Facilitator | Irma Jongeneel | Scribe | Alex de Leon |
| Attendee | Name | Affiliation | |
| X | Irma Jongeneel | HL7 Netherlands | |
| X | Line Saele | HL7 Norway | |
| X | Brian Postlethwaite | Telstra Health, Australia | |
| X | Alex de Leon | Kaiser Permanente, USA | |
| X | Christian Hay | GS1, Switzerland | |
| X | Cooper Thompson | EPIC, USA | |
| X | Hanhong Lu | EPIC, USA | |
| X | Simone Heckman | HL7 Germany | |
| X | Drew Torres | Cerner, USA | |
| X | Isabel Gibaud | HL7 France | |
| X | Tricia Chitwood | Cerner, USA | |
| Quorum Requirements Met (Chair + 2 members): Yes | |||
Agenda
Agenda Topics
- FHIR Ballot Reconciliation - Encounter
Supporting Documents
Minutes
Minutes/Conclusions Reached:
Introductions
- 14099 - Summary: Guidance on how to request a new identifier (e.g. MRN) (cont.)
Guidance will be provided in the section “8.1.3 Patient Id’s and Patient resource id’s”. Where there is a need to implement an automated MRN Identifier creation for a patient record, this could be achieved by providing an identifier in the patient with the MRN type, an appropriate assigner and no value assigned. Internal business rules can then detect this and replace/populate this id with 1 or more ids (as required).
Drew moves/Brian
Persuasive
Vote: 8/0/2
- 14823 Add search for Encounter.account –
Brian moves/Drew seconds to accept as persuasive.
Vote: 9/0/1
- 14824 - Encounter.class should be 1..1
Class cardinality should be 1..1 as mentioned in section 8.11.4 Notes
The class element describes the setting (in/outpatient etc.) in which the Encounter took place. Since this is important for interpreting the context of the encounter, choosing the appropriate business rules to enforce and for the management of the process, this element is required. Moreover in class history it is marked as 1..1, so unless it is mandatory in current encounter, there won't be way to have it mandated in history
Encounter.class should be 1..1
This seems reasonable to the WG.
Alex/Simone second
Vote: 9/0/1
- 14499 - Encounter.class description/definition contains duplicates (not in value set)
Description/definition says "inpatient | outpatient | ambulatory | emergency +"
The format of that description/definition usually implies those are specific codes in the value set, but the value set doesn't differentiate between outpatient and ambulatory. There is a single code for ambulatory, so it seems a bit misleading to imply there are codes for both.
The WG discussed this and decided upon a different description.
“Concepts representing classifciatin of patient encounter such as ambulatory (outpatient), inpatient
Simone moves/Line seconds
Vote: 9/0/0
- 14758 - Summary: Add example to Encounter.diagnosis.rol to address principal diagnosis for an Encounter as noted in the comment provided (or add an additional role of principalDiagnosis). - 2018-Jan Core #95
Clinical quality measures need to address the concept of a Principal Diagnosis defined by statute as the coded diagnosis/problem established after study to be chiefly responsible for occasioning the admission of the patient to the hospital for care. The roles provided do not directly address principal diagnosis. FHIR tracker (https://gforge.hl7.org/gf/project/fhir/tracker/?action=TrackerItemEdit&tracker_item_id=10544) suggest that encounter-primaryDiagnosis and encounter-relatedCondition extensions will be removed as they are redundant with the core resource (using Encounter,diagnosis.role and Encounter.diagnosis.rank. However, the extension remains. And the example in Encounter.diagnosis.role does not address principal diagnosis. Encounter.diagnosis.role should include an example for definiing Principal diagnosis (e.g., role = billing diagnosis AND rank = 1, or role = discharge diagnosis AND rank = 1. Alternatively, add a role of "principalDiagnosis" to enable clinical quality measures and clinical decision support.
Add example to Encounter.diagnosis.role to address principal diagnosis for an Encounter as noted in the comment provided (or add an additional role of principalDiagnosis).
The encounter-primaryDiagnosis and encounter-relatedCondition will be removed as being redundant to Encounter.diagnosis.role and Encounter.diagnosis.rank.
As for the example reference, Simone suggested to make this an example binding. THe WG determined to update example
The redundant extension will be removed.
Example f202 will be updated to remove the extension and clarify the usage.
Cooper Thompson moves and Tricia Chitwood seconds to make this persuasive with mod
Vote: 8/0/2
- 14477 - Encounter.serviceType needs binding to value set
Encounter.serviceType needs a binding to a value set.
After some research, it seems the binding is there, but the references from the Encounter.type does not point to the existing binding set which is an example set.
Brian moves, Alex seconds to move this persuasive.
Vote: 8/0/1
- 14451 - PA resources do not have a clean Workflow report
The workflow project has put together a report identifying places where resources don't align with patterns, as well as a mechanism for work groups to mark as "ignored" if they don't feel alignment is appropriate/necessary. Your work group has resources that are still showing up on the report - meaning that an alignment review has not been completed (or there are issues with the suppression process - in which case please let me know). Alignment is most critical for normative resources, but should be completed for all resources that are FMM3 or higher (and should be considered for resources with lower FMM levels)
After discussion our FHIR SMEs decided to “divide and conquer” the work based on the specific resources defined in the tracker item:
* ChargeItem - Simone
- Encounter - Drew
- EpisodeOfCare - Cooper
- AppointmentResponse – Brian
- Appointment - Brian
Meeting Outcomes
| Actions (Include Owner, Action Item, and due date)
|
Next Meeting/Preliminary Agenda Items
|
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