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RIMBAA 201010 Cambridge Minutes
Revision as of 00:15, 5 October 2010 by Rene spronk (talk | contribs) (→Meeting Attendance (marked X))
- Focus this WGM: If one has an RIM based object store, what services should one define? And how does one query it? - RIMBAA will be duscussing ideas and experiences.
- Short URL: http://hl7.me/ro
Contents
Tuesday Q6 (19:00-21:00) in Paul Revere A 
- Focus: this quarter focuses on SOA v3 implementation experiences
- Approval of agenda
- Announcements
- Rene: After yesterdays meeting I spoke with Charlie Mead (NCI), he is enthousiastic about hosting such a meeting in Washington; and will also ensure that one of their (BF oriented) implementers contacts us. That's an area where we haven't seen a lot of implementation in.
- NOTE: The meeting will have remote participant(s) (one person has signed up, Victor Chai, skype:chaizhv). Skype will be used BOTH for audio sharing as well as desktop sharing.
- Implementing hData (Max 30 minutes, Gerald Beuchelt, Mitre)
- Presentation on the topic of "mapping hData to in-memory RIM-based object structures" (the CS-CO or CS-RO cell transition in the technology matrix). The presentation will focus on the implementation of hData - and not on an explanation of hData itself.
- hData is (using HL7 speak) a new XML ITS. See HData (a Wiki page) or Video Overview for an introduction, and www.projecthdata.org/ for detailed specifications, schema and FAQ.
- How does this ITS compare to other ITSs when it comes to issues like code generation, code re-use and content validation?
- Use of CMET-like CRUD entity services in the Nijmegen University Hospital (the Netherlands). (Max 30 minutes, Ewout Kramer, Furore)
- Ewout: I construct them by comparing domains and then figuring out how to split the domains into manageable entities. These entities are small, and I also use a kind of reference indicator so one entity can refer to another entity. Large interactions are thus split-up (decomposed) into smaller, independent crud entities that are stored separately and can only reference each other. This way I try to solve the Object nets versus object trees storage issues. It also makes the store much more approachable and documentable for developers new to v3, I hope. I am storing each entity as a unit in its XML form in an eXist XML database. Splitting transactions and reconstructing them is done using XQuery.
- SOA Implementation in HL7 at NCI (max 60 minutes, John Koisch/Jean Duteau)
- John: We look at an emerging lightweight platform for extending oncology capabilities to existing EHRs. It is defined by the services that it exposes, and utilizes the HL7 Behavioral Framework to define contracts with arbitrary trading partners, who also are defined by services.
- This discussion will detail some of those services from a top down / bottom up perspective, showing how technology is influenced by the interface design, and will detail elements of the interface design and implementation. It will discuss aspects of the enterprise architecture and how these pieces are developed and have dependencies.
- Modeling and the SAIF layers are important, but will not be laid out in detail. Discussion will center around the ways that the modeling, the SAIF layers, and the implementation work in harmony and facilitate a rich specification.
- Rene, additional comment: NCI has embarked on the creation of a v3 SOA (SAIF based) based v3 implementation. The resulting code will be published as open source - it is funded under the US ARRA funding. The solution will both support a OLTP database as well as an OLAP (object graph; for clinical/DSS queries). The OLAP database is based on the RIM. The services use "CMET-like" v3 models.
Thursday Q4 (15:30-17:00) in Paul Revere A
- Approval of agenda
- Announcements
- JavaSIG 2010 (Davide Magni)
- Proposal/discussion about an updated version of the current JavaSIG toolkit
- RIMBAA Issues - Persistence models, LDM/PDM
- See modules S760, S780 and S785 of the RIMBAA best practices training available at www.ringholm.de/download/HL7v3_implementation.zip
- See these issues on the wiki: Implementation aspects of RIM based database models, ORM best practices.
- RIMBAA Issues - Querying of subsets of persisted object graphs
Friday Q1 (09:00-10:30) in Paul Revere A
- Approval of agenda
- Announcements
- Focus: Wrap-up, methodology issues surfaced by RIMBAA implementations
Monday Q4 (15:30-17:00) 
Meeting Attendance (marked X)
| At | Name | Affiliation | Email Address |
|---|---|---|---|
| X | Adel Ghlamallah | CIHI, CA | aghlamallah@infoway.ca |
| Alejandro Pica | EMA, UK | alejandro.pica@ema.europa.eu | |
| X | Alexander Henket | E-Novation, NL | alexander.henket@enovation.nl |
| X | Ameet Pathak | Harvard U, US | ameet_pathak@dfci.harvard.edu |
| X | Amnon Shabo | IBM, IL | shabo@il.ibm.com |
| Alan Nicol | Informatics, UK | alan.nicol@informatics.co.uk | |
| X | Alex Zupan | ItalTBS, IT | alex.zupan@italtbs.com |
| Andrew McIntyre | Medical Objects, AU | andrew@medical-objects.com.au | |
| Andy Stechislin | GordonPoint, CA | andy.stechishin@gmail.com | |
| X | Ann Wrightson | NHS Wales, UK | ann.wrightson@wales.nhs.uk |
| Brian Pech | KP, US | brian.pech@kp.org | |
| Charlie McCay | Ramsey, UK | charlie@ramseysystems.com | |
| Chris Winters | Vocollect Healthcare Systems, Inc., US | cwinters@healthcare.vocollect.com | |
| Dave Barnet | NHS, UK | david.barnet@nhs.net | |
| Diane Gutiw | SAIC, US | gutiwd@saic.com | |
| Duana Bender | Mohawk College, CA | duane.bender@mohawkcollege.ca | |
| Ed Larsen | Larsen Inc., US | e.laresen@ix.netcom.com | |
| Ernst de Bel | UMCN, NL | e.debel@ic.umcn.nl | |
| x | Ewout Kramer | Furore, NL | e.kramer@furore.com |
| X | Gordon Raup | Carefacts, US | graup@carefacts.com |
| X | Hugh Glover | BlueWave Informatics, UK | hugh_glover@bluewaveinformatics.co.uk |
| X | Ilia Fortunov | Microsoft, US | iliaf@microsoft.com |
| John Finbraaten | Marshfield Clinic, US | finbraaten.john@marshfieldclinic.org | |
| John Harvey | Iatric, US | john.harvey@iatric.com | |
| John Timm | IBM, US | johntimm@us.ibm.com | |
| John Ulmer | ??, US | johnu@clemson.edu | |
| X | Kai Heitmann | Heitmann Consulting, DE | hl7@kheitmann.de |
| Kenneth Weng | CareFx, US | kweng@carefx.com | |
| X | Lorraine Constable | CA | lorraine@constable.ca |
| Marilyn Maguire | Fuji Med, US | marilyn.maguire@fujimed.com | |
| Mario Roy | Iatric, US | mario.roy@iatric.com | |
| Mark Bevivino | Iatric, US | markb@iatric.com | |
| X | Mark Shafarman | Shafarman Consulting, US | mark.shafarman@earthlink.net |
| Mark Tucker | Regenstrief, US | mtucker@regenstrief.org | |
| X | Massimo Frossi | Ital TBS, IT | massimo.frossi@italtbs.com |
| x | Michael van der Zel | Groningen University Hospital, and Results4Care, NL |
m.van.der.zel@ict.umcg.nl |
| X | Mike Rossman | KP, US | michael.j.rossman@kp.org |
| x | Peter Hendler | KP, US | peter@hendler.net |
| x | Rene Spronk | Ringholm, NL | rene.spronk@ringholm.com |
| Rik Smithies | NHS, UK | rik@nprogram.co.uk | |
| Robert Worden | Charteris, US | robert.worden@charteris.com | |
| X | Sean Muir | VA, US | sean.muir@va.gov |
| Scott Parkey | Axolotl, US | sparkey@axolotl.com | |
| Stacy Berger | COH | sberger@coh.org | |
| Steve Fine | Cerner, US | sfine@cerner.com | |
| X | Tessa van Stijn | Nictiz, NL | stijn@nictiz.nl |
| Tim Dodd | CA | tim.dodd@health.gov.sk.ca | |
| Tod Ryal | Cerner, US | tryal@cerner.com | |
| X | Yunwei Wang | Siemens, US | yunwei.wang@siemens.com |
Minutes
- Rene calls to order at 15:35
- Approval of agenda for the week, and for this quarter
- Approved by general consensus
- Administrative agenda items
- Approval of the Minutes of the previous meeting in Rome
- MOTION by Ewout/Michael to approve the minutes of the RIMBAA meeting in Rome, (8-0-12, Y/N/Abstain).
- Announcements
- Amnon Shabo (as an interim co-chair) is up for election as a RIMBAA co-chair. Write-ins are possible as well, so please do vote.
- Canada Health Infoway have a fall partnership conference on November 15-17. This meeting contains presentations on RIMBAA topics, as well as a v3 implementation tutorial. Lloyd McKenzie, Lorraine Constable and Andy Stechishin will be in attendance, and have indicated they'll provide feedback to RIMBAA.
- Review WorkGroup Health - see [1].
- We'll ask FTSD (our steering division) to approve project 550, something which we forgot to have approved last year. That will improve our score yet again.
- Report from the Rome WGM (Rene)
- New concepts were presented by Michael and Ewout (e.g. SPM) - they have updates during this meeting.
- Discussion of javaSIG2010 - needs additional volunteers to make it available as open source.
- This topic is on the agenda for Thursday Q4.
- Discussion of a Data Types library, and the criteria that it should preferrably adhere to. Rene used the wording "quality criteria", Hugh suggests that "requirements" would be more appropriate.
- ACTION: Ewout to create an initial draft set of criteria and to coordinate the creation of a final list
- Discussion: we should probably also create a project scope statement. Focus should be to identify the requirements for such a library - "quality criteria".
- MOTION: Ewout/Lorraine: Motion to create a new project to identify requirements and quality criteria for data type libraries. (19-0-1, Y/N/Abstain).
- ACTION Rene/Ewout: Create a new draft project scope statement do a requirement analysis for Data Types libraries in general. The draft will be put to the RIMBAA WG for additional discussion and approval.
- Review RIMBAA three year plan
- Page wasn't changed, details of our main project and its deliverables were updated in the context of the next agenda item.
- Update of the whitepaper project
- Deliverables (the next whitepapers to be created) were updated.
- Create a HL7 Product description for the set of whitepapers (once we have a starter collection). This to increase visibility of the product as well as the v3 implementers community in general.
- Ann notes that the project scope statement has some wording/content about HL7 products as well.
- Planning of next meeting
- London UK
- Please register with HL7 UK should you wish to attend.
- ACTION Ewout to contact someone at Microsoft to speak on the CUI project during the meeting in London.
- Discussion on organizing a RIMBAA meeting in the US between the January and May WGMs.
- Peter Hendler is in favor and offers to ask KP to host the meeting in Oakland. Rene has already approached NCI in Washington to host a meeting.
- (update after the meeting, not formally part of the meeting minutes): Charlie Mead (NCI) is enthousiastic about hosting such a meeting in Washington; and will also ensure that one of their (BF oriented) implementers contacts us.
- London UK
- Approval of the Minutes of the previous meeting in Rome
- Update on the joint SOA/RIMBAA Services for RIMBAA project (Ann Wrightson, SOA co-chair)
- Ann: we have a draft project scope statement - apologies for not being able to keep traction on this project.
- Rene: RIMBAA accepted a motion to suggest a narrowing of scope to SOA (SOA will own the project, once approved).
- Ann welcomes the suggestion, and it raises some challenging questions. SOA based on RIM content is of interest of SOA. There's also a relationship with the hData inititive. Ann suggests that Michael and Ann move forward with it, and (a) to create an outline of the project outcomes, and subsequently (b) to create a project plan.
- ACTION Ann/Ewout to move forward on the Services for RIMBAA project, and (a) to create an outline of the project outcomes, and subsequently (b) to create a project plan.
- The use of data type level Schematron (Alexander Henket, max 20 minutes)
- Nictiz, the Dutch NHIN profiler/enforcer, uses a set of Schematron files to validate the constraints in as documented in the abstract Data Types R1 specification. The constraints are actually those that apply to the Dutch data type flavor, but the mechanism is generally applicable.
- Lots of implementation guides, 200 schema, 68 interactions - largely hand crafted; parts of which are based on whatever ballot was available at that point in time. And as such there are no MIF specifications to drive the generation of (e.g. Java) classes nor Schematron. The validation tooling is entirely XML-based.
- Project to validate instance; no validation of workflow aspects or business rules.
- Use ISO Schematron (xslt2 query binding; XQuery stuff). Cross industry tooling isn't too happy (i.e. they don't support it, e.g. SOAP Sonar) with the ISO Schematron spec.
- Use "abstract schematron" (irrespective of pattern that it will apply to). Have those for DT R1, CMETs, Message Types. Non-abstract Schematron for interactions, AuthenticationToken (in SOAP header)
- Their approach supports the full data type specialization hierarchy: the schematron for IVL_TS extends the schematron for IVL which extends the schematron for SXCM which extends the schematron for QTY which in turn extends the schematron for ANY. Based on R2 rules ported back to R1, also checks realm specific constraint rules.
- Alexander uses Oxygen to illustrate the principle using an interaction example.
- Future developments: work out strategy for templates.
- They are in the process of creating CMET/Message type specific schematron files that use the data type schematron and extend them by business-rule validations. This approach has some limitations: schematron doesn't allow pattern-nesting, and creating an MT-schema to MT-schematron transform is a tricky process because of recursion.
- Kai: Challenge - mapping of 'clinical data sets' to the RIM, requires template mechanism. looked at templates DSTU. Added concepts from DCM. Desire to generate Schematron based on template definitions. COR (new development) as simple constraint definition language; generates schematron.
- Template based CRUD services (Michael van der Zel) (max 20 minutes)
- "Simple Store", Templated CMET based CRUD Services (Create/Read/Update/Delete, basic services) approach, one Service Decomposition in RIMBAA Applications pattern.
- EHR-S FM (functional model) is something that exists in the end-user space. These can be mapped to a services layer. FM has 'hidden' hints about the behavior of the underlying services. A function (in the FM spec) is the approximate equivalent of a service. Top-down approach, FM function to Business-level service, based on CRUD layer of services.
- Traceability from services layer to e.g. EHR-S FM is key.
- Mark: have you talked to EHR? They're trying to tie their spec to implementable specifications.
- Adjourned at 17:00
