This wiki has undergone a migration to Confluence found Here
Difference between revisions of "RIMBAA 201001 Minutes"
Jump to navigation
Jump to search
Monday (January 18) Q3
Monday (January 18) Q4
Rene spronk (talk | contribs) |
Rene spronk (talk | contribs) |
||
| Line 91: | Line 91: | ||
**Main reason for DB2: fidelity of data. Rene: probably makes sense esp. given that we're talking about CDA. | **Main reason for DB2: fidelity of data. Rene: probably makes sense esp. given that we're talking about CDA. | ||
**Custom HL7 v3 java Library (generated from MIF) Construct CDA fragments from Java objects. CO-cell in the matrix. CP-CO-CS cells, all based on the CDA R2 R-MIM. | **Custom HL7 v3 java Library (generated from MIF) Construct CDA fragments from Java objects. CO-cell in the matrix. CP-CO-CS cells, all based on the CDA R2 R-MIM. | ||
| + | **(''the following comments were recveived after the meeting was held, as such they're not part of the minutes of the meeting, but provided as background information''): | ||
| + | ***Nick Radov (Axolotl): On Monday 01/18/2010 Scott Parkey, one of our software engineers, gave a presentation to the RIMBAA work group in Phoenix regarding Axolotl's new Enterprise Master Patient Index (EMPI) and the supporting HL7 V3 Java library. He mentioned that there were a couple follow-up questions so I am posting answers here in case anyone is interested | ||
| + | *** 1. To what extent is our HL7 V3 library "truly" RIM based, as opposed to being a CDA based "clone implementation"? It's both. We have a set of core Java interfaces (and matching set of implementation classes) for all of the RIM classes. And then we have another set of Java interfaces (and matching implementation classes) for CDA R2 which extend the RIM class interfaces. We had to overcome several design problems because the RIM interfaces are based on the latest RIM MIF file (currently version 2.29) whereas the CDA R2 interfaces are based on the POCD_MT000040.xsd XML Schema file distributed with CDA R2 (based on RIM version 2.20). There are several discrepancies between the two versions. Going forward we will also implement another set of Java interfaces and classes for the POCD patient administration domain, as used by the IHE PDQV3 integration profiles. | ||
| + | *** 2. How, more specifically, did we use MIF to generate the library? I wrote custom Java code to parse the RIM and vocabulary MIF files and generate additional Java code. We considered using XSLT for this but decided to do it all in Java just for simplicity. For each RIM class interface the code generator creates getter and setter methods for each attribute. For vocabulary we create a Java class for each concept domain, and in that class we create Java constants for all of the predefined concept codes. | ||
*'''RIMBAA Product presentation:''' Duane Bender (Mohawk College) presents an overview of the EVEREST Toolkit which is based on [http://142.222.45.111/blog/?p=37 collapsed MIF models]. The overview focuses on RIMBAA aspects of the toolkit: the architecture of the tool, [http://142.222.45.111/blog/?p=37 MIF collapsing], code generation, and the manipulation of collapsed RIM objects in-memory. See [http://vimeo.com/8831424 http://vimeo.com/8831424] for a video which contains a presentation by Duane of the core architecture of the toolset. | *'''RIMBAA Product presentation:''' Duane Bender (Mohawk College) presents an overview of the EVEREST Toolkit which is based on [http://142.222.45.111/blog/?p=37 collapsed MIF models]. The overview focuses on RIMBAA aspects of the toolkit: the architecture of the tool, [http://142.222.45.111/blog/?p=37 MIF collapsing], code generation, and the manipulation of collapsed RIM objects in-memory. See [http://vimeo.com/8831424 http://vimeo.com/8831424] for a video which contains a presentation by Duane of the core architecture of the toolset. | ||
**Framework for building a higher level API. also used directly by application programmers. Provides a rich class experience, no need to deal with XML. | **Framework for building a higher level API. also used directly by application programmers. Provides a rich class experience, no need to deal with XML. | ||
Revision as of 14:31, 19 January 2010
Minutes of the RIMBAA WG for the January 2010 WGM
Monday (January 18) Q3 
Meeting Attendance - :
| At | Name | Affiliation | Email Address |
|---|---|---|---|
| x | Alejandro Pica | EMA, UK | alejandro.pica@ema.europa.eu |
| x | Amnon Shabo | IBM, IL | shabo@il.ibm.com |
| x | Andrew McIntyre | Medical Objects, AU | andrew@medical-objects.com.au |
| x | Andy Stechislin | GordonPoint, CA | andy.stechishin@gmail.com |
| x | Ann Wrightson | NHS Wales, UK | ann.wrightson@wales.nhs.uk |
| x | Brian Pech | KP, US | brian.pech@kp.org |
| Chris Winters | Vocollect Healthcare Systems, Inc., US | cwinters@healthcare.vocollect.com | |
| x | Duana Bender | Mohawk College, CA | duane.bender@mohawkcollege.ca |
| x | Ed Larsen | Larsen Inc., US | e.laresen@ix.netcom.com |
| x | Ernst de Bel | UMCN, NL | e.debel@ic.umcn.nl |
| x | Ewout Kramer | Furore, NL | e.kramer@furore.com |
| x | Gordon Raup | Carefacts, US | graup@carefacts.com |
| x | John Finbraaten | Marshfield Clinic, US | finbraaten.john@marshfieldclinic.org |
| x | John Harvey | Iatric, US | john.harvey@iatric.com |
| x | John Timm | IBM, US | johntimm@us.ibm.com |
| x | Kenneth Weng | CareFx, US | kweng@carefx.com |
| x | Lorraine Constable | CA | lorraine@constable.ca |
| Marilyn Maguire | Fuji Med, US | marilyn.maguire@fujimed.com | |
| x | Mario Roy | Iatric, US | mario.roy@iatric.com |
| x | Mark Bevivino | Iatric, US | markb@iatric.com |
| x | Mark Tucker | Regenstrief, US | mtucker@regenstrief.org |
| x | Michael van der Zel | Groningen University Hospital, and Results4Care, NL |
m.van.der.zel@ict.umcg.nl |
| x | Peter Hendler | KP, US | peter@hendler.net |
| x | Rene Spronk | Ringholm, NL | rene.spronk@ringholm.com |
| x | Scan Muir | VA, US | scan.muir@va.gov |
| x | Scott Parkey | Axolotl, US | sparkey@axolotl.com |
| x | Stacy Berger | COH | sberger@coh.org |
| x | Steve Fine | Cerner, US | sfine@cerner.com |
| x | Tod Ryal | Cerner, US | tryal@cerner.com |
- Rene chairs the meeting and calls to order at 13:45
- Approval of agenda for the week
- MOTION: Approved by consensus
- Administrative agenda items
- Announcements
- Reminder that there is a RIMBAA co-chair election (today only)
- Approval of the minutes of the RIMBAA meeting in Amsterdam
- MOTION by Ewout/Michael van der Zel, 19-0-6
- Motion to organize two RIMBAA meetings in Europe in 2010 and to designate those as out-of-cycle meetings; the European meetings are to be held inbetween regular WGM meetings (e.g. June and November).
- (Note that a March 11 out-of-cycle RIMBAA meeting has already been approved during the 20091027 out-of-cycle meeting.)
- MOTION by Ann W/Ewout 25-0-0.
- Ann suggests that one of them be held in the UK. Rene welcomes the suggestion.
- Draft agenda for the Rio WGM
- 50% of attendees (by show of hands) state that it's likely they'll be in Rio. We'll meet in Rio, the number of quarters has yet to be determined. The agenda will consist of product presentations and discussion of workitems.
- Accept/reject work item to describe best practices / approaches for GTS implementation (as suggested by Ewout)
- Accepted in principle, although (by show of hands) the number of interested parties is low (4)
- Accept/reject work item to ensure that the RIM covers software-user, account, user groups, things one needs in RIMBAA applications, but not in HL7 v3 interactions
- Accepted in principle, although (by show of hands) the number of interested parties is low (3)
- Announcements
- RIMBAA Product presentation: Scott Parkey (Axolotl) presents an architectural/RIMBAA overview of the the Axolotl Elysium suite using examples from Axolotl's next generation MPI component. See http://www.ringholm.de/persist/20100118_RIMBAA_Axolotl_Elysium_MPI.ppt for the presentation.
- Objective is to maintain full RIM-fidelity. Currently fully implement v3 patient/person classes.
- Design decision: use DB2 pure XML database. Directly store XML files, indexes them based on a tree based representation. Query using XPath, no joins as in relation structure. Works pretty well with RIM, store XML. maintaining fidelity then easy, helps performance aspect.
- Main reason for DB2: fidelity of data. Rene: probably makes sense esp. given that we're talking about CDA.
- Custom HL7 v3 java Library (generated from MIF) Construct CDA fragments from Java objects. CO-cell in the matrix. CP-CO-CS cells, all based on the CDA R2 R-MIM.
- (the following comments were recveived after the meeting was held, as such they're not part of the minutes of the meeting, but provided as background information):
- Nick Radov (Axolotl): On Monday 01/18/2010 Scott Parkey, one of our software engineers, gave a presentation to the RIMBAA work group in Phoenix regarding Axolotl's new Enterprise Master Patient Index (EMPI) and the supporting HL7 V3 Java library. He mentioned that there were a couple follow-up questions so I am posting answers here in case anyone is interested
- 1. To what extent is our HL7 V3 library "truly" RIM based, as opposed to being a CDA based "clone implementation"? It's both. We have a set of core Java interfaces (and matching set of implementation classes) for all of the RIM classes. And then we have another set of Java interfaces (and matching implementation classes) for CDA R2 which extend the RIM class interfaces. We had to overcome several design problems because the RIM interfaces are based on the latest RIM MIF file (currently version 2.29) whereas the CDA R2 interfaces are based on the POCD_MT000040.xsd XML Schema file distributed with CDA R2 (based on RIM version 2.20). There are several discrepancies between the two versions. Going forward we will also implement another set of Java interfaces and classes for the POCD patient administration domain, as used by the IHE PDQV3 integration profiles.
- 2. How, more specifically, did we use MIF to generate the library? I wrote custom Java code to parse the RIM and vocabulary MIF files and generate additional Java code. We considered using XSLT for this but decided to do it all in Java just for simplicity. For each RIM class interface the code generator creates getter and setter methods for each attribute. For vocabulary we create a Java class for each concept domain, and in that class we create Java constants for all of the predefined concept codes.
- RIMBAA Product presentation: Duane Bender (Mohawk College) presents an overview of the EVEREST Toolkit which is based on collapsed MIF models. The overview focuses on RIMBAA aspects of the toolkit: the architecture of the tool, MIF collapsing, code generation, and the manipulation of collapsed RIM objects in-memory. See http://vimeo.com/8831424 for a video which contains a presentation by Duane of the core architecture of the toolset.
- Framework for building a higher level API. also used directly by application programmers. Provides a rich class experience, no need to deal with XML.
- The current version is .net based, working on a (port to) an Eclipse (Java) version. Open source released late 2009 as part of OHT.
- CO-CS cells (no persistence), RMIM oriented product. MIF v2 generated code.
- Build-in message conformance testing: Classes are conformance aware, when serialization is done it is an conformant instance.
- Didn't tie to one specific ITS or Datatypes release. Supports both R1 as well as R2.
- Build-in message conformance testing: Classes are conformance aware, when serialization is done it is an conformant instance.
- No support for Templates yet. Nor of OCL.
- Datatypes MIF not really sufficient, need to add custom code. hand written. Called helper functions in the Framework.
- Working with HTB as a persistence platform. Persistence (in general) not within current shipped product.
- Lesson learned: Preserve all information in MIF into the framework, including documentation.
- Lesson learned: tried to only use business names, but had to switch back to pure RIM semantics. People couldn't understand the business names, no consistent use. Mixture of RIM terms and business names doesn't work. have to do either/or. Ann confirms that UK had similar experience.
- Raised productivity 10-100x, by just having the Framework available
- MOTION to adjourn (Ewout/Peter H) at 15:00
Monday (January 18) Q4
Meeting Attendance - :
| At | Name | Affiliation | Email Address |
|---|---|---|---|
| Alejandro Pica | EMA, UK | alejandro.pica@ema.europa.eu | |
| x | Amnon Shabo | IBM, IL | shabo@il.ibm.com |
| x | Andrew McIntyre | Medical Objects, AU | andrew@medical-objects.com.au |
| x | Andy Stechislin | GordonPoint, CA | andy.stechishin@gmail.com |
| x | Ann Wrightson | NHS Wales, UK | ann.wrightson@wales.nhs.uk |
| x | Brian Pech | KP, US | brian.pech@kp.org |
| x | Chris Winters | Vocollect Healthcare Systems, Inc., US | cwinters@healthcare.vocollect.com |
| Duana Bender | Mohawk College, CA | duane.bender@mohawkcollege.ca | |
| Ed Larsen | Larsen Inc., US | e.laresen@ix.netcom.com | |
| x | Ernst de Bel | UMCN, NL | e.debel@ic.umcn.nl |
| x | Ewout Kramer | Furore, NL | e.kramer@furore.com |
| x | Gordon Raup | Carefacts, US | graup@carefacts.com |
| x | John Finbraaten | Marshfield Clinic, US | finbraaten.john@marshfieldclinic.org |
| x | John Harvey | Iatric, US | john.harvey@iatric.com |
| x | John Timm | IBM, US | johntimm@us.ibm.com |
| x | Kenneth Weng | CareFx, US | kweng@carefx.com |
| x | Lorraine Constable | CA | lorraine@constable.ca |
| x | Marilyn Maguire | Fuji Med, US | marilyn.maguire@fujimed.com |
| x | Mario Roy | Iatric, US | mario.roy@iatric.com |
| Mark Bevivino | Iatric, US | markb@iatric.com | |
| x | Mark Tucker | Regenstrief, US | mtucker@regenstrief.org |
| x | Michael van der Zel | Groningen University Hospital, and Results4Care, NL |
m.van.der.zel@ict.umcg.nl |
| x | Peter Hendler | KP, US | peter@hendler.net |
| x | Rene Spronk | Ringholm, NL | rene.spronk@ringholm.com |
| x | Scan Muir | VA, US | scan.muir@va.gov |
| x | Scott Parkey | Axolotl, US | sparkey@axolotl.com |
| x | Stacy Berger | COH | sberger@coh.org |
| Steve Fine | Cerner, US | sfine@cerner.com | |
| x | Tod Ryal | Cerner, US | tryal@cerner.com |
- Product/Tooling demonstrations
- Virtual Medical Record WG (vMR) Presentation: (Andrew McIntyre)
- Keywords: vMR overview (see Virtual Medical Record (vMR)), use of GELLO, MIF-gelloclass-UML transforms, RIMBAA aspects of the ongoing vMR effort.
- Andrew: I aim to demonstrate how GELLO can operate over a VMR (The one we have is a basic one, but RIM like, as in the one in the GELLO standard)
- vMR is created by Clinical decision support. The model GELLO talks to. GELLO is a OCL variant, specialized for querying. To extract data out of an EHR.
- vMR model based on various inputs in term of models. vMR could be the basis for services, is GELLO inspired as well. Interested in methods of classes next to their structure.
- use a facade models (not real RIM) in GELLO to shorten path to access classes/attributes. No moodCode attribute, semantics in context. vMR expressed as a UML class diagram model. Model is (should be) mappable to pure RIM.
- Attempt is to express vMR as a level-2 CCD R-MIM. Not going for 100%.
- Ann: OCL is designed to query an object model. Need to ensure that vMR is developed according to HL7 processes, and ensure mappability to RIM. Andy: group would probably benefit from having a Modeling facilitator.
- RIMBAA Product presentation: RIMBAA Aspects of the DB2 PureXML database. Amnon Shabo (IBM) presents: "research effort developing a data warehouse (RIMon) that is based on the RIM". See http://www.ringholm.de/persist/20100118_RIMBAA_IBM_Hypergenes_BII.PDF for the presentation.
- Core aspect: BII - Biomedical Information Infrastructure, contains general purpose data warehouse. Called RIMon (RIM based XML storage); querying supported by XQuery. Created datamarts 9exports out of DB2 in ER tables) using RDF definitions.
- Received v3 instances are RIMified (mapped to generic RIM classes); allows for creation of Rimified queries for decision support. Archived instances are "RIM ITS" (an in-company own version thereof) based, with preserved clone names.
- Lesson learned: XQuery too complex for most researchers. Lead to the creation of datamarts.
- RIMBAA in the (SA)EAF Matrix (Michael van der Zel) see RIMBAA: SAEAF vs RIMBAA
- Michael: SEAF is based on ODP/RM. Views on a system, each view has a different focus. Will need more work to determine how RIMBAA deliverables (best practices, reference implementation) fit with the SAEAF matrix.
- MOTION to adjourn by Ewout/Peter H at 16:50
