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Difference between revisions of "RIMBAA 201011 Minutes London"

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#**Based on NHS CUI developments, includes tools that allow for translations of labels. Tools are set to be multilingual, those features are however not used by the NHS. Use/format of telephone numbers, ZIP codes, patient identifiers need modifications. They created a Dutch implementation guide for the CUIs, interpretation as well as translation of the CUI documentation.
 
#**Based on NHS CUI developments, includes tools that allow for translations of labels. Tools are set to be multilingual, those features are however not used by the NHS. Use/format of telephone numbers, ZIP codes, patient identifiers need modifications. They created a Dutch implementation guide for the CUIs, interpretation as well as translation of the CUI documentation.
 
#**Binding of v3 model (e.g. R_patient [universal]) to CUI control properties.
 
#**Binding of v3 model (e.g. R_patient [universal]) to CUI control properties.
 +
#**(Robert Worden enters the meeting)
 +
#**InfoPath has limitations one will have to deal with. For one of the CUIs we could get it to display, but we couldn't get the data entry side to work. May need some flattening (e.g. using the method detailed by the "new ITS") of the v3 XML prior to binding it in InfoPath.
 +
#**Used a lot of CUI guidances. CUI doesn't have an information model.
 +
#**CUI guidance should be made computable to serve as the basis for MDA forms
 +
#**Hans: business rule validations is always tricky. the validation of the information .. either don't allow any invalid data upon entry, or allow data to be entered and validate at a later point in time. Michael: upon data entry. It was what the clinical users wanted. Hans: in an emergency situation one may have to deal with partial information. Michael: we have a workaround for that situation. Ann: involvement of user group is a key factor.
 
#Development of a new RIMBAA application (Andy Harris)
 
#Development of a new RIMBAA application (Andy Harris)
 
#*Update on his efforts to create a new RIMBAA application for [http://www.nihr.ac.uk/ NIHR] (UK). Andy has ample experience with RIMBAA applications and recently started the development of an entirely new application.
 
#*Update on his efforts to create a new RIMBAA application for [http://www.nihr.ac.uk/ NIHR] (UK). Andy has ample experience with RIMBAA applications and recently started the development of an entirely new application.

Revision as of 11:25, 4 November 2010

On November 4th a joint HL7 UK / RIMBAA meeting was held in London UK.

Meeting Minutes

  1. Ann calls to order at 10:05, and hands the gavel to Rene
  2. Administrative
    • Agenda Review/Additions/Changes
      • Tim Chearman won't be here. Agenda (as modified) accepted by general consensus.
    • Approval of the Minutes of the previous meeting in Cambridge
      • MOTION to approve the minutes of the RIMBAA meeting in Cambridge (Lorraine/Michael, 10-0-2 Y/N/Abst)
    • Announcements
      • Ann: the next UK meeting will be on December 8 and 9. The focus will be implementation experiences. There has been a call for presentations and demonstrations. It's a 2 day meeting, the second day will be focus (in part) on table top product presentations. She would like to encourage the RIMBAA community to consider attending and presenting.
    • Report from the HL7 Cambridge WGM, and the meeting in Cambridge (Rene, max 15 minutes)
      • Amnon Shabo was elected co-chair in Cambridge. He represents the vendor community and has specific knowledge about the use of native XML databases in combination with RIMBAA.
      • The Services for RIMBAA project was revived (Ann will report in more detail during this meeting)
      • Alexander Henket held a presentation about the use of (abstract) Schematron to validate data type requirements
      • There were a number of presentations about architectural principles when it comes to the design of v3 based services. Lorraine will elaborate on some of these aspects during this meeting.
      • SMIRFS, a particular way of chunking object nets, was discussed again. Rene will present the state of things during this meeting.
      • New & active implementers are being sought to jointly create JavaSIG2010, an upodated version of the Java SIG toolkit.
    • Planning of next meeting in Sydney
    • Approval of the Software Implementation of CDA whitepaper; which was created as part of our project to create a series of whitepapers.
  3. User Interface (UI) based on the RIM; binding UI to the RIM. See User Interface for RIMBAA Applications for generic information on RIM-based UI design.
    • Tim Chearman (NHS UK, CUI project lead), on the NHS Comon User Interface (CUI) project. The NHS, jointly with a university are developing an Opensource framework. See [1] for details.
      • Tim couldn't attend this meeting.
    • Michael van der Zel (University Hospital Groningen, NL), on their developments related to the use of Forms (Infopath) and User Interfaces (CUI Toolkit/ASP.NET & Silverlight) bound to HL7 v3.
      • Using a Patient Summary (EHR) application as an example, how can we create the link between database and UIs?
      • Common UI elements like the "patient banner" (e.g. patient demographics and allergies), buttons of UI functions.
      • Wider long term aims (Michael acknowledges this will be very difficult) to go for full v3 semntics, End-to-End v3, SNOMED CT, RIMBAA from UI to DB. DCM to capture requirements. EHR-S FM as a reference.
      • Patient Banner (demographics + adverse reactions - brief list), Patient History, and Propensity to Adverse reactions (details of those reactions) candidates for UI, standardize data capture/access to increase patient safety.
      • Based on NHS CUI developments, includes tools that allow for translations of labels. Tools are set to be multilingual, those features are however not used by the NHS. Use/format of telephone numbers, ZIP codes, patient identifiers need modifications. They created a Dutch implementation guide for the CUIs, interpretation as well as translation of the CUI documentation.
      • Binding of v3 model (e.g. R_patient [universal]) to CUI control properties.
      • (Robert Worden enters the meeting)
      • InfoPath has limitations one will have to deal with. For one of the CUIs we could get it to display, but we couldn't get the data entry side to work. May need some flattening (e.g. using the method detailed by the "new ITS") of the v3 XML prior to binding it in InfoPath.
      • Used a lot of CUI guidances. CUI doesn't have an information model.
      • CUI guidance should be made computable to serve as the basis for MDA forms
      • Hans: business rule validations is always tricky. the validation of the information .. either don't allow any invalid data upon entry, or allow data to be entered and validate at a later point in time. Michael: upon data entry. It was what the clinical users wanted. Hans: in an emergency situation one may have to deal with partial information. Michael: we have a workaround for that situation. Ann: involvement of user group is a key factor.
  4. Development of a new RIMBAA application (Andy Harris)
    • Update on his efforts to create a new RIMBAA application for NIHR (UK). Andy has ample experience with RIMBAA applications and recently started the development of an entirely new application.
  5. MDA based on DCMs (Michael van der Zel, University Hospital Groningen, NL)
    • Practical experiences of a Model Driven Architecture (MDA), based on DCMs (ISO Templates). The architecture is fully model driven, inclusive of the database model. Micheal will also discuss the extensive role of terminology in this project.
  6. Request/response services for certain DCMs/Templates (Ann Wrightson)
    • Experience with a toolkit to build request/response services on a patient's record that are expressed as a request for available instances of certain DCMs/Templates. There is a service-in-the-making that works like that within the NHS Wales SOA (using "record elements" based on the Scottish data component standards in the absence of an available/adoptable RIM-based DCM repertoire).
  7. Services for RIMBAA Project (Ann Wrightson)
  8. Information Decomposition at NCI (Jean-Henri Duteau and/or Lorraine Constable)
    • The NCI project uses v3 based services. Jean will explain the design and methodology principles of its architecture team when it comes to the design and composition of services, and achieving the right balance between the richness of the information model and the specificity of the service operation.
  9. The state of the SMIRF (Rene Spronk)
    • SMIRFs (as an acronym) have been introduced in Cambridge. Rene will provide an overview of the state of the discussion.
  10. Suggested new discussion items by John Koisch (received by e-mail)
    1. SOAP / REST – It is pretty clear that we can interchange these in an implementation by shifting around the granularity of the calling operation. However, I would think for HL7, providing some sort of explicit implementation boundaries is going to be necessary if we want to be sure that one or the other does not lead to implementations that violate the spirit / letter of what HL7 is about
    2. The Behavioral Framework for SAIF provides the place for implementers to make clear statements about a message’s provenance. I think that RIMBAA is a good place to bring in work from OpenProvenance and the like.
    3. Service Impl stubs .... I think that sample implementation stubs are as important as sample messages in implementing a specification. This is something that RIMBAA is positioned to be involved in, I think
    4. HL7 extensions to WSDL ... The WSDL specification from w3c allows for certain extensions. I think that providing a set of HL7 extensions (for example, a set of provenance statements about the information expressed at an interface) would be a really good way to make HL7 more flexible and clear in implementation.
  11. Discussion of RIMBAA Issues

Attendee List (marked X)

At Name Affiliation Email Address
  Andrea Ceiner ItalTBS, IT andrea.ceiner@italtbs.com
  Andrea Poli O3 Enterprise, IT poli@o3enterprise.eu
  Andy Harris National Institute of Health Research (NIHR), UK  
  Arild Hollas CSAM Health, NO arild.hollas@csamhealth.com
  Bas van Poppel iSoft, NL bas.vpoppel@isofthealth.com
  Bertil Reppen Apertura, NO  
  Davide Magni ItalTBS, IT davide.magni@italtbs.com
  Ewout Kramer Furore, NL e.kramer@furore.nl
  Freek Geerdink Vrumun, NL freek.geerdink@vrumun.nl
  Georgio Cassetti Noemalife, IT gcassetti@noemalife.com
  Giuseppe Lapis , IT g.lapis@computer.org
  Hans Jonkers Philips, NL hans.jonkers@philips.com
  Henk Enting MGRID, NL  
  Kjetil Sanders CSAM Health, NO Kjetil.Sanders@csamhealth.com
  Leonardo Truscello Webred, IT leonardo.truscello@webred.it
  Libero Maesano Simple Engineering, IT/FR libero.maesano@simple-eng.com
  Massimo Frossi ItalTBS, IT massimo.frossi@italtbs.com
X Michael van der Zel UMCG and Results4care, NL m.van.der.zel@ict.umcg.nl
X Rene Spronk Ringholm, NL rene.spronk@ringholm.com
  Roberto De Lorenzi , IT r.delorenzi@datasiel.net
  Roelof Middeljans UMCG, NL  
  Sara Gaion ItalTBS, IT sara.gaion@italtbs.com
  Saverio Sabina CNR, IT sabina@ifc.cnr.it
  Silvano Montanari Dedelus, IT silvano.montanari@daedalus.eu
  Tessa van Steijn Nictiz, NL stijn@nictiz.nl
  Tom de Jong NovaPro, NL  
  Tommy Kristiansen CSAM Health, NO tommy.kristiansen@csamhealth.com
  Willem Dijkstra MGRID, NL w.p.dijkstra@mgrid.net
  Yeb Havinga MGRID, NL y.t.havinga@mgrid.net
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